Behold 2 Shipping With Android 1.5

With only 11 days remaining until the expected release date of the much anticipated Samsung Behold 2, we all want to know what the specs are and most importantly what version of the Android OS will it ship with. Today, via T-Mobile Phones Blog, it looks like the Behold 2 will sadly ship out with the outdated Android OS 1.5. But not to worry, a new video from Samsung Mobile has confirmed that the Behold 2 will indeed support Android OS 2.0, that is, “when it arrives”. Hey, it’s better than being stuck with OS 1.5. Enjoy the video above and if you haven’t already, check out the Samsung Behold 2 walk-through. Don’t forget to express your thoughts in the comments!

AndroidandMe Via T-Mobile Phones Blog

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  • yayo

    That’s bs it needs to be 2.0 that goes to show you that there’s preference between tmo and Verizon tmo needs to be consistent if they want to move from 4th place

  • mrtech

    Not buying it until it gets 2.0

  • NiiDiddy

    Even if we had Android 2.0 on this device is not going to change T-Mobile’s situation or circumstances. They need more…a whole lot more.

    However I agree that it kind of shows that it looks like there is definitely a preference to VZW as opposed to T-Mo.

    Then again, maybe…just maybe, the VZW Execs know a thing or two about business and what it takes to stand out and be creative in a heated/competitive industry [as opposed to taking anything that is thrown at them]. T-Mobile needs to take a lesson or two from that. Behold II could have easily been the 2nd Android 2.0 device on the market…easily! And if the TouchWiz integration is the issue for not shipping with Android 2.0 – well, strip TouchWiz, ship with Android 2.0 and later on do an OTA update to the Behold II that will include TouchWiz.

    I really don’t “get” T-Mobile, but gotta love ’em…

  • This is actually more up to Samsung than T-Mobile. Devices with modified versions of Android, like HTC devices with Sense, or Samsung’s cube-thingy, will take longer to get Android updates because the companies themselves have to recode their skin for the new version. Devices running stock Android, like the G1, MyTouch, and Droid, will get the newest updates faster since they don’t have to go throug another company’s programmers.

  • Kershon

    @NiiDiddy. I agree completely. I would rather have seen a delay on release date and have os2.0 on the device when released than releasing it now and wait on a future update. Looks like we lost our chance again.

  • Dustin

    They won’t tell us the full specs because this phone is sadly full of fail. I was waiting 3 months for the “Galaxy” or whatever Samsung was cooking up in Europe to ship the the USA – namely to TMo. All I got was a fail MyTouch, a less-than robust kid-centric Cliq, finally a 3g Blackberry (some rejoice!), and now a crippled Samsung.

    Then I find out that if I renew my contract, my monthly statement will actually be more than what I’m paying now. Project Dark — fail.

    I love Tmo, but seriously it’s getting more and more difficult to love them. I’ve been a loyal customer for 3 years running. Verizon is still way pricey. ATT is lacking any customer support, and I don’t care about the iPhone one bit. Sprint? What’s that…?

  • Reuben

    Guys –
    this is still good news. At least we know one way or another we will get 2.0…
    Re: the specs – if on Ebay you could find a Galaxy that has better specs than the Behold 2 for a little more why would you go for this?
    In the Android world ROMs don’t make the difference, as you can update or tweak the software sooner or later…. hardware does.

  • @ryaninc: Hopefully Cyanogen or some other member of the modding community will release a modified ROM that runs on the Behold II that allows it to run 1.6 or even 2.0 without the CheeseWiz UI (thereby making it run faster and eliminate something that I for one don’t really care to have on my phone).

    @Dustin: I agree, I never thought I’d say it but Sprint is starting to look more and more appealing every day… the only thing holding me back is the fear that EVDO coverage in So Cal won’t be as good as T-Mobile’s 3G is. With my G1 I get reception in some places where my Sprint-using coworkers don’t.

  • Galen20K

    It really should have shipped with 2.0 but maybe Verizon has a limited exclusivity deal.

  • IsThataJoke

    I Said It Before and I WIll Say IT Again lets all just Buy the Nokia N900

  • eli_the_great89

    Samsung touchscreen phones are terrible. I’m not sure why the past Samsung Instinct and Behold and all others were made into such a big deal.
    it is highly annoying to navigate through a phone that’s either resistive or capacitive (WITH NO MULTI-TOUCH).
    These phones LAG so much either when you try and navigate through a screen or try and type. typing is the biggest problem on these phones.

    I really don’t know why these phone manufacterers if they want to compete with the iPhone don’t just make their phones with OS that run MULTI-TOUCH

  • WazzuKirk

    That dude is a total knob.

  • Android Guy

    For the record:

    No Google Docs support yet.

    Second, the Cube is not an interface, it is an app.

    Third, the Behold II has the same app storage as the g1.

    The onscreen keyboard sucks, especially compared to the original behold. Easily fixed with Touch Input.

    Other than that, best Android phone yet.

  • I’ve been using a Behold 2 demo for a few days now, and here’s what I have to say…

    > 2.0? Who gives a rat’s ass.. People who “are waiting for 2.0” before they buy this are seriously nitpicking and prolly can’t afford this phone anyways… Samsung’s 1.5 is a-okay, trust me.

    > The Samsung UI is pretty useless, and quite cumbersome… But guess what?? YOU DON”T HAVE TO USE IT… I’ve actually been enjoying PandaHome as my home replacement for the Behold 2, and let me tell you it makes ALL the difference.. You don’t have to use the cube at all either. They shoulda made the cube button into a search button.

    > Samsung’s Touch screen responsiveness? FLAWLESS, trust me

    > Want RAM? You got it!! After start up, this phone generally has in upwards of 150m RAM free… Smashes the myTouch (which i own and love, btw)

    > 5MP camera w/Flash, ’nuff said.

    Things I don’t like and you prolly won’t either…

    > The Samsung keyboard is haorse manure, straight up… I tried the HTC keyboard but kept getting FC’s.. Now using Better Keyboard which actually makes this thing usable.

    > SMS UI on this phone is fugggly… I recommend HandcentSMS


    All-in-all this will be the BEST overall Android phone in T-mo’s lineup once it hits the shelves. I think this one will be under the radar, but it is definitely worth a look-see.

  • Nerdlust

    1.5 2.0 want be that big of a difference to real customers. As long as it’s a free over the air update to get 2.0! Tmob has great phones now. 3g blackberry fills a large a social networkphone. Most people still use regular phones tmobile can get some first time smart phone buyers. Also over the last months I have been hearing a lot about android. We just need to advertise!

  • TmoRSA

    It is getting kind of annoying to see all these attacks against T-Mobile’s phone lineups. THe phones T-mo is carrying is trying to cater to the market. THey have affordable phones at affordable prices. This means yes we will loose out on the fastest and the greatest things, but it doesnt mean the things we do get are bad by any means.
    If you want the fastest/Greatest phone then go to Verizon and get the Droid, ive used it, its a good phone. I also have the Moto Cliq as my daily phone and I am entirely satisfied with how much the phone costed me, how much my service costs etc. If i want to pay thousands of dollars more a year on top of the cost of the phone then obviously you are not T-Mobile’s target base or you are complaining for the sake of complaining.

  • niididy

    The point is missing here. I read through each comment and I didn’t really see anyone necessarily complain; I see comments of concerned tmo lovers, that’s all…so maybe we are all reading into this differently. The beauty of America is that we all have our opinions, likes and dislikes, and we can vocalize them.

    Having said that, the whole point in my opinion is that TMobile doesn’t seem to be competing. Android 1.5 may be great and it may end up getting ota updates of 2.0 in the future as the other phones – but the fact is majority of customers who are waiting for and will buy this phone are avid Android followers who have already owned some Android phones. They will expect the “latest/greatest” OS to run on it – its only natural. I expected the 2.0 to run on it too….

    Again if I was TMobile and I wanted to compete, I’d have found a way to get 2.0 on the behold ii from the get-go. That way there are two of them on the market, and compete with Droid sales. I bet it would have competed well too.

    We all have our reasons for staying with TMobile – but it doesn’t mean we should keep our mouths shut and not voice our opinions. It also doesn’t make us bad people to the point where someone should tell us “if we don’t like it we should leave”…that statement alone doesn’t make for good business….

  • SocietyOne

    I know I’m not going to lose sales because of the OS. The average customer doesn’t care, and the “smart” customer will never be happy anyway. Complaining for the sake of complaining seems about right.

  • NiiDiddy

    Either way, it still would have made for good competition…simply because there would have been another option for a 2.0 …fact is, that’s not the case anyway. I was just saying that is how I’d have done it – but hey I am not T-Mobile…I am just a customer with an opinion or complaint…however you see fit!

  • PhoneCollector

    Does it include an Exchange client?? No good Exchange support makes it a non-starter for me. I would buy it today if it had Android 2.0 because I need to access multiple Exchange Accounts for work and my Gapps for personal. I’ve used several aftermarket solutions but they were just to sluggish / non-integrated, I’d rather use one of my iPhones/WinMo’s instead.

  • rossi

    @ SocietyOne

    Seems that you did lose costumers in the 3rd quarter… oh, but that must be because the plans weren’t cheap enough, right? That’s why AT&T and Verizon lost costumers last quarter too because their prices were too high. Oh wait, that’s right, they didn’t. What was it that they offered? hmmm, They offered advertising (apple’s advertising) and THE device (AT&T), and coverage (verizon, now you can throw in THE android device, also). Seems that Tmobile is doing just fine as it is…. Right? I hate to break it to you, but they were already the cheapest for basic plans and they still lost costumers. Their 3G coverage is the smallest of the 4 major carriers(by far), their phones are second rate, and their prices only make up for it if you need an unlimited plan.

    I will say that when I have voice coverage I never get dropped calls and the quality is quite good. However, there are many times in rural areas in the midwest (where I live) there isn’t even coverage to critique.

    It doesn’t take a “smart” costumer to figure see what tmobile lacks. Here are a few examples of things they need to do to succeed. They NEED to pick up the n900, HD2, and a similar Android offering etc and do a huge marketing push for them to attract power users and business clients (who buy data and really increase the ARPU). However, they need to keep offering some low end and middle of the road devices to satisfy the “average” user (which is debatable if you use AT&T and the iPhone as an example). They NEED to expand their 3g and voice coverage (doesn’t sprint have wimax coverage in as many areas as tmo’s 3g? I kid, I kid). They NEED to revamp their family plans. They NEED to jump on the LTE bandwagon. They NEED to offer free mobile to mobile (if they don’t revamp those family plans).

    Even if they were to choose two of those things they would become much more competitive. Instead, they keep thinking plans are going to save them (they went from cheapest to… cheaper if you want unlimited, and maybe, maybe not the cheapest for everyone else). They keep bringing the same types of tired/old devices, and their coverage is nothing to write home about. Sure they have good costumer service, and fast 3G where it’s available. However, we’re forced to buy the N900 (which isn’t even available yet) for a top quality device, and we pay the same price for data coverage that is 1/10th the size of verizon’s. They went from THE Android carrier to the 3RD place Android carrier in the span of 2 months (behind verizon and sprint) with no hope in sight of regaining that position (at least nothing is rumored).

    I hate to think where tmobile will be when AT&T and verizon(especially) jump to LTE, and Tmobile hasn’t even finished the roll out of their 3G services (shoot, they haven’t even finished the roll out of EDGE at this time)…

    We complain not because we dislike tmobile but because we know they are capable of much more. What they don’t need is TmoRSA, etc etc coming in here and saying, “oh you guys are a bunch of babies, tmobile for the winzooorrrsss!!!” What they should be saying is, “perhaps I should tell my supervisor, who will tell their supervisor, who will tell their supervisor, and hopefully someone who has the power to do something will eventually bring it up in their board meetings.” Instead, I see the bottom end employees (who deal with the costumers) being fooled by the higher ups into thinking they really are the best it’s just the consumer who demands too much.

    As more and more people move to their cell phone as their primary means of communication they WILL be demanding that their carrier provide more than the simple savings of $10 or $20 a month (or none at all). Think about it, they cancel their home line at a savings of $25 a month, what is an extra $20 a month to go to verizon over tmobile? They’re still saving $5 dollars a month, and they are getting (on average) a better network, and, at this time, they’re getting better phone options. They’re also more likely to be aware of Verizon and AT&T simply because they do more advertising.

    Again, I say this because I hope somebody, somewhere will get a clue that in order to compete with Verizon and AT&T they need to change more than just their prices and the promise that if I wait long enough I’ll have 3G everywhere (who cares if it’s after the days of LTE, right?).

  • NiiDiddy


    Thank You! Well said.

  • Here are some of my thoughts about the video…

    1) The guy is kind of annoying and needs to get lost…

    2) Out of all of the features that they could be showing on Android, they focus on Google Maps? Give me a break. Why would you focus on an application that anyone with an iPhone or even a Windows Mobile phone can download and use?

    Come on Android…

  • 30014

    @Rossi…I couldn’t have said any better. There are to many dumb asses on this blog that love to say “if u don’t like what tmo is doing then leave”. Why do u think tmo had a terrible 3rd quarter? Because people didn’t like what tmo was doing and left. Think before u comment.

  • strayelectron



    One more thing… If T-Mobile wants to move up in the standings, they also have to eliminate bad press around their major announcements. Project Dark was, unfortunately, overshadowed by the Sidekick debacle and the recent nationwide outage; both preventable.

  • M L

    @Rossi……Brilliant ! I’ve been saying the same to them since 2001 and I first picked up the Windows Mobile Smartphone ( which was the ONLY ONE available at the time ). I kept telling them….I’ll pay an extra $10/month…just give me access to the damn data….oh, and get newer phone, but did they listen to me ? No.

    Believe me….if my credit weren’t shot because I lost my job for 6 months…I’d have jumped to VZW or ATT by now….Heck, if Sprint had Moto Droid, I’d go Yellow Can You Hear A Pin Drop in a heartbeat. TMo remains viable for folks who look for little more than making phone calls.
    To the “connected customer”, someone who needs connectivity, they are ( and if they don’t get themselves in gear will continue to be ) the last thought in carriers.

    Stop pushing yourselves as the Least Common Denominator carrier if you want to be anything more than Last Place (heck, even Metro PCS has grown to almost half TMo’s size, and they aren’t even national ! ).

    GET with the PROGRAM, TMo.


    This preference you speak of is unfounded. This is a decision made by T-Mobile’s execs, particularly from Robert Dumbass Dotson and the CTO. They made the decision to release the phone with 1.5. Of course they could have passed on it but stupidity got the best of them.

    Verizon and AT&T are catered to by the handset makers because they do viral marketing of their offerings. T-Mobile markets with has-been actors. No disrespect Whoopi….I loved you in Ghost.

    When T-Mobile start picking high quality phones and start showing handset manufacturers they’re going to be competitive maybe…just maybe things will turn around.

  • maxxcooner

    You made it!!
    Past all the idiots congrats!
    Now with me say the chant to save tmo and hope the gods (tmo bosses listen)
    HD2 N900, HD2 N900! HD2- N900!! AGAIN THEY DON’T HEAR US !!!! HD2 N900!!!
    HD2 N900!!!!! YES fellows at the top it is out first RATE PHONES NO NEUTERED PHONES HERE.

  • Vikingsfan45

    okay everyone is right i just feel that t-mobile is to scared to even take a shot at at&t and verizon. i mean project black is supposed to rapidly bump them to the 3rd spot but idk if anybody checked but that’s a huge gap to jump to even with the increase of customers leaving sprint. Robert dotson is a dumbass that won’t even put his company in position to compete. Even with project dark being such a let down as it was they still had a chance to do a huge marketing campaign before it even dropped, to make customers aware that t-mobile is making some type of move. lol i’m a marketing major and that seems like common sense but what did t-mobile call it…… when project black first launch they called it a “soft launch”……??????????? WTF a soft launch?????? T-mobile USA is a bunch of idiots… Verizon and At&t have nothing to fear and neither does sprint…….. which is sad to say because we all want the magenta to be #1 but without doing this they won’t make it anywhere…….

    T-mobile to do list

    1. Fire robert dotson :get someone that isn’t afraid to put t-mobile into a winning postion
    2. Redo Corporate Spending in which the marketing team can have money to spend year around instead of like around showtime(honestly i can say even tho i hardly ever watch t-mobile i never see a t-mobile commercial unless i’m watching a NBA game)
    3. Be practical about handset prices(no way no way that a samsung comeback should cost $180)
    4. Make a power move with handsets(offer two for special on certain phones like the t-mobile G1 or blackberrys to get more people used to android so they can be known as the origin of Android.
    5. Roll out 3G as soon as possible to the rest of cities that don’t have it yet( then start working your way on the interstate in between the most traveled highways then to the desolate area’s where even verizon has 3G coverage

  • Vikingsfan45

    *watch t.V (instead of t-mobile lol just get frustrated at times thinking where t-mobile should be at and where it currently @ and)

    -and i’m sure everyone would agree that…. blackberry 8120 should not be 180 with a 2yr agreement am i right thats crazy……………………..

  • Thanzig

    For everyone discussing LTE, the technology is at least 2 years away from being available for customer use and it involves a complete network overhaul on both AT&T’s & VZW’s part. The theoretical speed is currently 100 Mbps. AT&T could increase their throughput with HSPA+ but that would also require hardware upgrades on all of their cell sites, which they have already stated isn’t going to happen. VZW’s current evolutionary path is dead and has forced them to wait for LTE. TMO’s current evolutionary path can reach theoretical speeds of 84 Mbps, which can be done with their current network and hardware and would only require software upgrades. I don’t see a need for TMO to jump on the LTE bandwagon just yet when their current network has enough potential to far exceed other carriers networks for at least the next 18 to 24 months. Just visit Philadelphia right now to get a taste of what TMO’s HSPA+ network can do. BTW, the company that is leading the way in regards to LTE is in fact T-Mobile. Granted, it T-Mobile, USA’s sister companies in Europe but the lessons learned over there will do nothing but benefit TMO here.



    T-Mobile live in a far away land called DUH!!!

  • DAMGIC448

    If I said it before, i’ll say it again. I DONT LIKE SKIN ON MY ANDROID!!

  • mikeeeee

    to all you clueless ones who don’t have a handle on world commerce.

    those phones were made, packaged, put into a container, loaded on a boat and shipped from china or wherever way before eclair was close to being ready.

    samsung was most likely well aware of this and was reassured from google that the latest o/s would slide in like eclair filling.

    now i’m supposing here but, if the phones hit long beach piers and were headed to t-mo’s distribution center in lagrange, georgia that’s another 4+ days on a train on top of the month plus from the foundry door to long beach.

    then they have to go by truck for another couple of days to all the stores and warehouses so that they will all be in place on for a coordinated launch day.

    the few that are available for special people most likely flew over here and you don’t want chinese air cargo freight rates added on to the cost of your new squeaky toy.

    so if you buy one i’d be willing to bet that 2 seconds after you enter your google account, the thingy updates.

    if it has UMA, i’m buying one fo’ sho’ cuz, samsung’s cell signal reception is the best of all of them and UMA is the white squiggly icing running down the chocloate on top.

  • nyijedi

    Man…TMO has really been dropping the ball lately. Thanks for making my decision to switch to VZW for the Droid look even better.

  • rossi

    @ Thanzig

    And tmobile’s 3g Network is AT LEAST 2 years away from completion… Once again, playing the waiting game. Which would you rather wait for? If I’m paying for data now I’ll take “dead end but in place” verizon 3G over theoretical we’ll getcha when we getcha tmobile 3G (so I hope you’re fine with edge for 2 more years). Which company do you think will be the quickest to adopt LTE? The company that has the most revenue, perhaps? Then all unlocked european phones will be compatible with that particular carrier’s netowrks… and well… you see where this is going.

    Of course if you live in one of the limited test markets for HSPA+ than good for you. I don’t, and neither do 230 million other people in this country…

    By the way, how do you know that Tmo’s current equipment only requires software upgrades? Are you simply regurgitating what you read somewhere one time while you were standing on your head? I have never read that for a fact. I am not saying it’s not true, but I am curious if there is actually some proof for this claim.

    Regardless, the argument for LTE standard is more than who will get you the high speed coverage first. I’m more interested in losing the proprietary (insert carrier)’s 3G frequency and adopting the LTE standard for all carriers. Therefore, we may one day be able to buy any unlocked phone and use it with whatever carrier, from whatever continent (well, at least better than we can now). If we continue to adopt different standards (Tmo 3g, wimax, etc) we’ll never see that happen.

    Again, LTE is only one small part of the equation as it is, so I guess we can agree LTE is a ways off. However, I will continue to say that tmobile needs to expand not only their data coverage, but also their voice coverage (of any technology). I say that in addition to their stand on LTE, and I warn you to be ready to accept whatever phones the manufacturers feel like making for their funny frequency (we know how that goes already). Refer to the rest of my previous post for the bigger problems.

    @ Mikeeee

    Haha, I am less worried about the software on this phone than I am about the hardware. Ahhhh snap.



    Uh….Verizon has LTE in a couple cities now and will start full deployment in Q1 2010. that’s just a couple months away. So in T-Mobile’s defense………
    There is no defense. The fact of the matter is they’re behind the rest of the pack. Even #3 Sprint is rolling WiMax out next year. The assumption that 4G is two years away is foolish. It may take two whole years to complete, that’s all.
    Why would you think because the theoretical potential of HSPA would the absolute reason for not moving to LTE? Hell, most of the country is still waiting for a full deployment of their 3G service at 3Mbps. They’re already 2 years behind the rest of the pack in terms of 3G…time to catch up already.

    This is an extremely competitive market these days and you can’t just sit back and do nothing while the competition plows ahead. This is the exact reason why T-Mobile is in the predicament they’re in currently. They actually balked at the potential of what data brought to their revenue stream and banked completely on voice. Boy were there so wrong. And now to sit back and say we’ll stay right here on our scarcely available 3G network and spur competitive is another fool-hearty stance.

    Do you really think that VZW, AT&T and Sprint want have a ace up their sleeves even IF T-Mobile attempts to pull off 7.2Mbps deployment? They’re not gonna let pissy #4 upstage them. They have too much marketing prowess and clout with the handset makers to put to bed any of T-Mobile’s weak ploys.

    At this stage in the game T-Mobile MUST go BALLS OUT to shuttle past Sprint. That might bring the big two to notice that T-Mo means business. Anything less…well…I expect it will be everything less. Even More failure. More embarrassment. That goes along with their campaign I guess.

  • donosaur


    Actually unlocked LTE phones from europe won’t work on verizon because it has been well documented that Verizon is only using LTE for data, CDMA will still be used for voice. Also saying Tmo doesn’t have 3G is a pretty 2007 statement. If you live in a major city *roughly 85% of tmo subs do) you have had 3g for upwards of a year.



    Again I must interject….

    I respect what you’re saying by in the matters of T-Mobile in Europe, the US outfit isn’t benefit one bit. Recent reports insist that T-Mobile has been silent in their contributions to agreeing on standards for LTE here in the US. How can they benefit from efforts in abroad when they’re not contributing to efforts here in the US?

    As Rossi stated…T-Mobile is 2 years behind already and there are no signs of them catching up anytime soon. Their problem has been a lack of vision and competitiveness. Project Dark could have been a huge success still being talked about today if T-Mobile shocked the industry by actually having a fully operational 7.2Mbps HSPA+ network available to all customers and anouncement of phone that none of us had known were coming. Good phones….maybe even a much needed exclusive that would showcase the new network and the new plans. 3 big blows and the competition would have been staggering. Unfortunately it wasn’t the case.

  • Rossi

    @ correction. If you live in the right part of a major city you’ll have 3g, maybe. Ask cincinnati. Ask NYC. Ask Des moines. The list get’s longer. You’ll have 3g sometimes… Maybe… Still seems valid in 2009. Nice try. I’ll agree though… Tmo seems stuck in 2007.

    If that’s the case for verizon CDMA/lte… Then I stand corrected. However, it’s still a very small part of the equation…

  • donosaur


    So you are saying Verizon is going to roll out LTE several years ahead of the European markets targeted ETA of 2012/2013? Lots of misinformation going on in this thread.

  • donosaur

    I live in Seattle and I have had rock solid 3G since the day I got my g1 on 10/22/08 I cannot speak on other markets.

  • rossi

    @ Donosaur

    You might find this interesting. Thanks for your misinformation.

  • rossi

    @ Donosaur

    In seattle? Oh… you know what’s in Bellevue right? Lucky you.

    How much of that map is dark purple?

  • Grr

    Couple things on LTE:

    Verizon is ahead of the game. However, it will take them 2013 and beyond to fully launch LTE. This is a bit different than Verizon going 3G because Verizon will have to install much more equipment for this launch. By 2013, they will likely still not have a 1 to 1 ratio 2G to 3G sites.

    Having 10 sites in two major cities like that is not really a huge build. Generally a city of that size will have hundreds of sites. However, thats a pretty normal test bed. The challenge they have ahead of them is getting all that fiber in the ground. Since they have a landline company it is doable, but will take a lot of time and money.

    Speaking from a T-mobile perspective, there is very little chance that T-Mobile could have led the charge on LTE in the US without near unlimited monetary resources. The first challenge is infrastructure of fiber. Verizon has they more readily available. The second challenge is the handsets. Most manufacturers have just really gotten into developing high-end 3G devices. It will take a company like Verizon going LTE to get their attention to develop high-end 4G devices.

    T-Mobile’s greatest challenge for 4G is going to be spectrum again. Otherwise, they will need to push customers off the GSM network to free up what they have. So, spectrum deficient cities would have to be completely 3G before you could do that. Also, you would have to make sure every customer has a 3G capable phone. If they get new spectrum, then you have to worry about spectrum clearing again. Otherwise, T-mobile needs to buy another carrier such as MetroPCS which may be the best option.

  • Grr

    Just one other note about Verizon (and I’m dogging them because I think they have the best overall network as far as coverage is concerned):

    Verizon absolutely has to go to LTE early. They are forced into it because they currently use a technology that cannot compare to T-mobile and AT&Ts technology. The reason Verizon is better right now is because AT&T and T-Mobile cannot compete in overall coverage. However, T-Mobile and AT&T’s 3G technology can grow while Verizon’s is at a standstill. To keep their lead, Verizon has to do this otherwise they could lose their competitive advantage. Now that Verizon is switching to a more universal technology, they will be stronger than ever. It is just going to take a bit more time than people may think to get that technology out.

  • rossi

    @ Grr

    You make some good points. Good posts. Thanks.

    My question for you is, in terms of overall coverage of higher speed data, which carrier do you think will offer the largest coverage of high speed HSPA+ or LTE respectfully by, say, end of 2011? I guess my point being that since Verizon’s current CDMA network is considerably larger than tmobile or AT&T’s 3G GSM networks, and they plan to almost equal their current coverage with LTE by 2013. How long will it take them to overtake (obviously, in your opinion) or at least equal the roll out of HSPA+ by Tmobile? Or to stay ahead of AT&T when they start to roll out LTE? Obviously this will happen sometime before 2013.

    To make that question more clear… Verizon’s current 3G network is 5x larger than AT&T’s 3G network (according to their commercial, remember this is an illustrative example…), so how long will it take for Verizon to achieve 1/5th of their current coverage with LTE coverage? Remembering that they hope to achieve nearly full coverage by 2013…

    I ask the question because that’s all they really need to achieve to beat out HSPA+ or AT&T’s LTE to be successful in their roll out. Every additional square mile of coverage is simply icing on the cake after that.

    Clearly, this is assuming no setbacks on the technological side. Like you said, they’ll have to lay cables and that’s going to take time, but I think it won’t take them that long to regain their high speed coverage superiority.

  • Lev

    I got to play with the Behold 2 today, and first thing I will say is that the screen is amazing, so crisp and vibrant, and the brightness was turned way down, so good job by Samsung on that. The 5mp camera is very nice as well, took really quick pics, maybe a half second or so delay. I watched a youtube video as well, it looked ok, nothing great. I also tested the music, I found the music kind of quiet. I have always found Samsungs to really blare their music through the speaker, for example my friend has an Instinct, and his speaker was ridiculously loud, but clear. This one sounded good, but at the highest level which was 7, was not that loud, average maybe. The call quality was good, some static I heard, but descent signal. The web browsing was pretty snappy, even on edge, i was impressed how fast things pulled up. I tested he keyboard, and I will say, I had the mt3g keyboard, which was quite laggy, this one however, flew, it seemed to keep up with me typing and did not lag, also has a nice auto correction feature. it is fairly responsive, however I did notice this phone uses vibration feedback, which can be tweaked from no feedback, to intense feedback. With the vibration feedback on, I noticed it lagged a lot, when I turned it off, it was a lot better. The cube interface is pretty cool, but its gimmicky. i works well, but to me its more style over substance. The phone it self is really light. wow, I though the mt3g was light, this thing is like a feather, which ca be good or bad, it did not feel cheap by any means, has a nice solid feel to it, feels great in the hands. I was told it had an led indicator notifying you of messages, missed calls, etc… I sent a text from my phone, it notified me with a sound, however it never lit up. One thing i did not like is the Android menu comes from the side, to me it was not as responsive as the Cliq, mt3g, or G1. I would tap it and it would come up, but when I wanted to close it, it did not register my touch, but in fact brought up other menus, maybe thats an issue with me being used to it, i dont know. As far as the 3 home screens are concerned, it does not transition as quickly, whether this was purposely to create like a slow motion effect, i dont know, but it was smooth, just slower. Overall I liked it, plus the phone dialer was nice and big, and felt better then the Cliq, maybe because it is 3.2 inches, but I noticed the difference. All in all I would say if you loved the mt3g, this phone is even better. To each his own, it all depends on what you are looking for.

  • Way to shrink/kill the app drawer, Samsung…


    @Donosaur Seems as like the misinformed one here is you. I don’t spout off at the mouth unless I have most of my facts straight. Gotta love Google. Thanks for the misinfo Rossi. :o)

    It’s public knowledge of Verizon and AT&T’s intent to rollout LTE next year. Didn’t you get the memo? It’s been AT&T and Verizon putting forth the most efforts in setting technical standards for the platform. News reports I read made of T-Mobile’s lack of participation if these when they were the ones kicking and screaming about nothing getting down. How come they haven’t shown up?

    LTE isn’t a figment of our imagination…in the coming months and year it’s going to be the reality AT&T and Verizon remain committed to being innovative and competitive. T-Mobile on the other hand will continue to babysit their relic Edge network and the hobbling 3G one. You can stick around if you’d like I’ve moved on until I see significant improvements in T-Mobile. Low prices isn’t that it’s cracked up to be.

    I’ll leave you with this. Since I switched to VZW I have yet to drop a call in areas where i did on T-Mo’s Edge or 3G network. Not saying I ever won’t but so far places where I routinely drop are a thing of the past. That’s assuring.


    @Grr Good post.

    I just wanted to add one rebuttal to your statement of Verizon’s need to deploy fiber. That’s an easy fix since they’ve been doing so for quite some time now (FIOS). I wouldn’t imagine Verizon not being forward thinking provisioning some of that for their future LTE network. If they’ve started in Seattle and Boston they surely have a fiber network in place already. I have FIOS here in southern California – lightning FAST.

    CDMA still has some breathing room and Verizon is intent on an aggressive LTE roll out to keep up with the needs of its customers.

  • G1User

    I can’t believe that the carrier to give android a chance is now way behind the rest of carriers when it comes to android. How is Verizon releasing phones with 2.0 and T-Mobile is trying to compete by releasing phones with 1.5! As far as the phones…..T-Mobile is being left in the dust and is about to run out of gas :(

    • recharged95

      Until T-mo rolls out 7.2mbps HSPA and then 21mbps by May.

      Then OTA upgrades their phones and then well see who’s behind.

  • Dusky

    Bear in mind that I’m (really) not a T-Mobile fan boy; I’m out of contract and seriously looking at a Droid.

    I’m absolutely certain Verizon will be in a massive rush to rollout LTE. As has been noted, they have to. They are essentially wedged at EVDO-A and their only path to higher bandwidth is to push LTE. That’s somewhat problematic for a number of reasons – first, the absolute and utter dearth of LTE devices. Second is bandwidth.

    LTE is going to require them to allocate new spectrum. They doubtless have enough spectrum that they can overlay their existing footprint, but that’s going to be a massive undertaking – new equipment and antennas at the nodes, new devices into customer’s hands, etc. Can they do it? I have no doubt. But it’s not likely to be an overnight affair. I’m sure they will have working LTE deployments, primarily for bragging purposes, by the end of 2010, but also that it will be mostly for aircards and the like, not actual phones.

    Until they complete the cutover, people will old phones (i.e. – the Droid) are going to be stuck on EVDO-A and may actually see their EVDO-A coverage decline as Verizon starts to cut their cherry spectrum over to LTE, probably as they start to cut all their top of the line phones over to LTE (end of 2010? 2011? There are none now.)

    And, while Verizon undoubtedly has a heck of a fiber backbone, fiber is not exactly hard or expensive to find or pull. Time consuming, yes. I rather doubt that even they have a majority of their nodes on fiber today – too expensive and not necessary until you are serious about something higher than, say, EVDO-A.

    Contrast this with T-Mobile. As near as I can tell, every single smartphone they’ve shipped will go to 7.2mbps immediately. Flip a switch and they are double the bandwith. They’ve known this since they started their 3g rollout, so I suspect they’ve provisioned their nodes with enough bandwidth for that, and maybe fiber in spots, so that they are ready for HSPA+. HSPA+ is a known thing – chipsets are rolled out, deployments have happened, and it can happen in their existing footprint without disruption. That takes them to 21Mbps, maybe 42Mpbs without getting wildly disruptive.

    Now, if you seriously think that your mobile device is going to require or be able to consume anything like that, I’d like to know how. If you are planning on running torrent sites, maybe. Even streaming HD video (why? To a handheld device? You only need a fraction of HD, any more is just burning battery to resize down to your screen size.) Is it going to make your experience “faster”? I rather doubt it, I think you will be limited by a lot of other bits of hardware (CPU, RAM, etc.) to well below anything like that amount of bandwidth used. That will change, sure, but there’s the window for upgrading to LTE.

    So, when you get right down to it LTE/HSPA+ are all about capacity. And there is PLENTY of room in what T-Mobile has today or can rollout with minimal disruption.

    Verizon, on the other hand, has to move. Has to.

    AT&T is in a much better place – but they have a ton of older iPhones out there and until those get replaced, they have a lot of data moving over EDGE or lower speed 3G. Not good.

    I quite prefer where T-Mobile is right now. They are clearing the hump on 3G deployment and can concentrate on backfilling coverage. And in the meanwhile, it seems to me that I am less likely to be encountering slow nodes, saturated nodes, etc than I am with Verizon (EVDO-A wall) or AT&T (older devices constraining them). By the end of this year, T-Mobile, if they are to plan, should not only have 7.2 deployed, *they should have all their devices using it*. They move quickly and some time in 2010, have 21Mbps HSPA+ deployed and a lot of devices using that, all of which gives them (I expect) a better user experience than I’m likely to see with either VZW or AT&T. As LTE becomes more of a mainstream thing, they either overlay that on their existing EDGE spectrum or maybe they take a pass for a while. Fully built out HSPA+ could well be sufficient for several years.

    BTW, and this is of course a YMMV affair, but I’m coming from 10+ years of VZW and have been on T-Mobile only a year; my dropped call experience has been about on par. What I have seen, which I did not see with VZW, has been an aggressive (and I mean *aggressive*) node expansion on T-Mobile’s part. They put up three towers in my town alone; VZW added…none. Going to depend a lot about where you are and where you go, like all coverage. But I like the math here, too. VZW is going to be spending like crazy rolling out new LTE gear. T-Mobile can get much of the same bang for a hell of a lot less bucks – that means they can concentrate their cash on coverage.

    All of this assumes a lot. I have not inside information and I’m speculating wildly. But that is my read on the current situation.

    And why I’m passing on a Droid for now.

  • Grr


    Verizon is in good shape where they have a fiber backbone. The problem is, there are areas where there is Verizon Wireless but no Verizon landline. I live in Florida for instance. There is no Verizon carrier delivering circuits to the cell sites. In this case, they will have to depend on AT&T to get the fiber to their sites. This is what will cause the 4G to be spotty for awhile. There are some areas I can guarantee Verizon will absolutely not have 4G anytime soon due to lack of fiber. There are some areas covered by some of the “Ma and Pa Bells” where Verizon will be completely unable to get fiber to cells yet.

    Verizon’s 4G build, will likely resemble AT&Ts 3G build. It will be strong in the core, but lacking outside. However, Verizon has pretty good speeds on the outside regardless. It just won’t be the 40-100mb/s you will see initially with LTE.



    Do you remember the dotbombs? Well during that time a lot of fiber was sprawled across the country by companies that promised we’d have fiber to our homes and bandwidth would be plentiful. Since those companies tanked there has been miles and miles of dark fiber laying around. Companies like Google and Verizon have been buying it up….in particular Verizon where there are have limited presence or none at all. It’s not difficult for Verizon to run fiber in areas they don’t have it. I’m sure that in areas that may fact some challenge there are data providers they could buy or partner with. That’s a fairly resolvable issue.

    As far as sprectrum….do you remember the auction of spectrum some time last year I believe. Know who the big winners were? Verizon and AT&T. Those two have more than enough air to handle the migration to LTE. Rest assured AT&T and Verizon have a well thought out plan to deploy LTE. I don’t think Verizon will have and issue handling the load as the migration begins to pick up.

    The problem with AT&T wasn’t necessarily the network…their 3G network was quite reliable a looooong time ago. The problem was putting too many people on it at the sacrifice of trying to be #1 by using the iPhone. Before the iPhone came around I never heard complaints about service but that’s what happens when they attracted so many people with such a great device. They weren’t prepared and they’re paying for it. Greedy bastards.

    • Bill48105

      Yeah there is definitely a lot of dark fiber around but wonder how much is in the last mile where they’ll need it vs interstate or such.

      Yeah the old tv spectrum auctions doled out a LOT of space so we’ll see what comes of it, especially for competing companies who currently have different technologies & bands. It would be great if they all played nice so we could all have best coverage & speeds in the shortest time but we’ll see.

      No kidding, so true! I had ATT for many years (as in Ameritech wireless to AT&T Wireless to Cingular to ATT Mobility) and besides some transitions (like when they dropped TDMA & went to GSM and when they were switching from 850 to 1900) I always had great connectivity, awesome call quality & rarely a drop call. The joke was you could always tell someone on Verizon or Sprint because it was garbled & sounded like they were talking through a voice synthesizer so those of us on ATT would make fun but ATT got greedy, jacked up pricing and oversold their network for the iphone and ATT & customers were paying for it. The highly noticeable difference in call quality, the dropped calls, the super slow 3G/EDGE at times and their high prices made me jump ship to TMobile and I was quite happy until TMobile decided it was time to shake things up with the new plans and they made it clear they are wanting to play along with the big 3 and soak people wherever they can while trying to seem like they are the best deal. Not everyone wants/needs unlimited talk, text, data so why push those or eliminate options besides unlimited unless you are just greedy and hoping to rake in some more cash at the expense of abuse to your network. I mean seriously, if ATT would have had non-unlimited plans for iphone their network issues would be as extreme because instead of people trying to “get their money’s worth” and using so much data streaming 24×7 or running torrents etc they would have used it more sparingly. Anyway, I understand some people want unlimited to avoid the anxiety of unknown bills but in reality if the overage charges by all cell companies weren’t so high there’d be very little need for unlimited since normal people don’t even come close to 40,000 minutes of talking each month or 133GB of data or 250,000 text messages per month if they sat there doing each 24×7 so in the end unlimited is just a marketing ploy to force people into higher priced plans that has an unfortunate side-effect of causing nasty abuse and network problems when people try to get what they can for their money.

  • Dusky

    It’s definitely going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

    One thing to bear in mind re:backbones and fiber and backhaul is that it’s not exactly rocket science to pull fiber to wherever you want it. It’s pretty easy in most cases and where it isn’t (or maybe everywhere), wireless backhaul is probably going to work pretty well. Half the fun setting up wireless backhaul is getting line of sight, after all, and these things are going to be sited on existing towers designed for good LOS. Last time we setup wireless backhaul for my company, we were right next to a cell tower and that tower was already pre-qualified for LOS. If we could have had access to it, we’d have been done. A day for plenty of bandwidth.

    What is interesting to me is that while VZW and Sprint are basically forced into a technology transition and AT&T is stuck with a lot of legacy gear, T-Mobile is basically starting from scratch with a network that can scale to near LTE speeds without the risk and cost of investing in LTE. They have a very clean path to enough bandwidth to last them for several years.