T-Mobile sheds some light on YouTube’s absence from Binge On

tmobilebingeon

When T-Mobile announced Binge On earlier this week, it said that the free video streaming supported 24 different services, including big hitters like ESPN, Hulu, and Netflix. One glaring omission was YouTube, one of the largest video sites on the Internet. And now a report has shed some light on why YouTube is absent.

Speaking to the Wall Street Journal, T-Mobile VP of Engineering Grant Castle explained that the problem is a technical one. T-Mobile needs to be able to identify incoming traffic as video so that it can apply the optimization tech that enables Binge On’s free streaming, and while YouTube videos usually use the HTTPS protocol that T-Mo can identify, sometimes it uses another protocol called UDP that Magenta has more problems analyzing. That leads to T-Mobile being unable to identify some video streams from YouTube.

Castle also explained that in the process leading up to Binge On’s announcement, T-Mobile was working so quickly that it just didn’t have time to figure out how to handle YouTube’s video streams. “We are in a hurry, honestly,” he said.

The good news is that T-Mobile is working to get YouTube included with Binge On. Castle says that the issue involving YouTube’s different protocols isn’t an insurmountable one, and T-Mobile has already said that it’s in preliminary talks with Google about adding YouTube to Binge On.

As I said before, YouTube is a huge source of video on the Internet. Folks go to the site for viral videos, TV clips, and more, and recently YouTube has made a big push with video game and music content with its YouTube Gaming and YouTube Music initiatives. And so while Binge On will certainly save folks some data usage with its 24 supported services, I’m betting that a lot of people will be more excited about Binge On when it adds support for YouTube. And that’s why T-Mobile is hard at work on figuring out YouTube’s video protocols and negotiating its inclusion with Binge On.

Source: WSJ

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  • Carlos Menendez

    BingeOn is a bad idea.

    • PC_Tool

      BingeOn is a horrible name – but a great idea.

      • Adrayven

        I’m betting most good names would have got them sued.. like PlayON and the like. Trade marks are hard to navigate.

        • PC_Tool

          I know, I only wish there was some name they could have given it that would have directly tied into to their previous “data-free” service “Music Freedom”…maybe something with the words “Video” and “Freedom” in it.

          …but that’s just my opinion. ;-)

      • Loco Mole

        But it’s Binge On, not BingeOn.

        • PC_Tool

          Well, then.

          That changes everything!™ /s

    • Actually, it’s only bad for you if you’re the competition or with another wireless provider. It’s also a great follow up to music freedom. Streaming Google Play, Spotify and SiriusXM without using data has been awesome in fact. I’m sure I’ll enjoy streaming video just as much if not more.

      • John

        Does Music Freedom throttle the connection when I access video streams?

        BingeOn throttles the connection when I access video streams.

    • It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. A lot of people will buy more data than they need to be eligible for it, and to get the family match. I mean their most popular data plan has been the 3 gB one, and there is probably a reason for that. Now you pay more to get 6 gB (the lowest level to get the Binge on unlimited streaming). Add to that capping the data Stash to 20 gB, I think a significant portion of people will be paying for more data than they use.

      • BingeON can be selectively disabled from your T-Mobile account for those that don’t want to be capped on Data Stash. For those times that BingeON becomes more valuable than Data Stash you can just turn it back on. T-Mobile has and continues to provide it’s customers more control over how they get to use the data they pay for than any other carrier.

        • And when you re-enble it does it drop you back down to 20?

        • No, it just prevents additional accrual past 20GB. You lose nothing but can’t benefit from any more than 20 GB of your potentially larger Stash untill you switch BingeON off. It’s a soft cap to prevent those who abuse having both at the same time.

        • DStudio

          Matt, I think you might be throwing the word ‘abuse’ around. So now paying for over 20GB of data and NOT using it is abuse? Or is the abuse binging on unlimited 3x compressed video that T-Mobile specifically set up and advertised because they WANT you to use it – a service called … what was that? … oh, yea, BingeON!

        • Trust me I know :)

          once you opt in to binge on you cant go back and get unlimited data stash. Only thing you can toggle on and off is data optimization

        • Dustin Roe

          It never was unlimited. Look at your TOS and you will see a time limit on rollover or Stashed data which limited data stashed to (I believe but it could have been 12 months) 6 months which would be 36 GB if you used 0 data prior to the last month on the 6 GB plan.

      • Fabian Cortez

        Why would anyone buy more data if they could Binge On and have Music Freedom while accumulating unlimited data on Data Stash?

        Remember, this is a business decision. T-Mobile is not your family.

        • Because the benefit from the unlimited streaming only applies to plans with data plans that are at least 3 gB. So there are a variety of reasons people would buy more than they need. For instance, one of the plan members has unlimited and wants the 14 gB hostpot increase. Well when switching plans the 3 gB person’s options would be 2 gB with no Binge on and an amount that might be insufficient for their needs, or paying the extra money to get 6 gB which way overshoots their needs.

          And that is exactly my point, this is a business and not a family, and I think it is a snazzy way to get people to buy more data than they need and then cap your data stash, and stash that is now useless for many people at the higher rates and plans, because if you drop down to the 2 gb plan you don’t keep your stash. And if you only ever needed around 3-4 gBs you’ll never need to dip into your stash anyway.

        • Fabian Cortez

          No. You’re missing the point.

          2 GB is free data. Meaning that is comes with the $50 you spend.

          When you pay for data, you get the extra perks of paying for said data. Data Stash and Binge On being a couple.

          Data Stash being capped makes sense. Most people stash data and use it for services that were previously not whitelisted. Video was not whitelisted. Now that it is, what’s the purpose of accumulating excess amount of data? Likewise, from the business’s point of view: why continue to allow users to accumulate so much data? If the user needs the data, they can pay for more or opt out of Binge On.

        • No, you are missing the point. The 2gB is not “free”, it is bundled into the cost of the lowest tier pricing. Second to that, you are missing the other point which is that now your options are 2 gB without the perks, or 6 gB with the perks, instead of 1 & 3. The 3 gB plan was their most popular option. Now you pay more for 6 gB, with the inherent perks. Which on a per gB basis is a better deal, but that only works out to a person’s advantage if they actually use it.

          HOWEVER, it seems likely with the 3 gB plan being the most popular, that 6 gB is more than people need. So obviously someone at T-Mobile crunched some numbers and made some calculations to determine how they could maximize their profits.

          I don’t disagree with you on the “need” for data stash, I am saying that they way this has been structured and advertised is to maximize marketing hype and to maximize their profits. As you said, it is a business decision, and as such it is one made to benefit the business and not the consumer.

          As said, ad nauseum, it is a business decision, which is why no matter what the hype says, it doesn’t seem to be to most people’s benefit to switch to the newer plan.

        • Fabian Cortez

          It is free. It’s an unpaid data tier. It is a doubling of the previous 1 GB base tier with no change in cost. And there are perks: Music Freedom, International roaming, stateside texting, tethering, no overages, etc.

          No benefit in switching? Going from $70 a month with 5 GB to $65 a month with 6 GB must be a fluke then.

        • It isn’t “unpaid” it is a BUNDLED fee. You are paying for it because you are paying the line and that is an included cost. That is the minimum. They don’t let you pay less for no data do they? Except for promotional “free” lines when you have more than a certain number you are paying for the line and it is a cost. Nothing is free. But I agree that if you were on the 1 gB plan then as a singleton or a group where everyone is on the base tier, it is a better deal.

          But have I said anything about 5 gB? No, I have not. I was talking about 3gB. So people who are on the 3 gB plan (as I have said before and as Tmobile has said before, it is their most popular plan) and have no issues with it, as a singleton pay $60. If they switch to the new plans their options are to switch DOWN to the $50 plan with 2 gB and relatively few perks, or go UP to the 6gB plan which is $65 and has more data than they need. They obviously had the 3 gb plan because that is how much data they needed, otherwise they would have the 5gB plan. For the 5gB people, stepping down to the second tier, the now 6gB tier is a better deal. But the 5 gB tier was not their most popular plan was it?

          I don’t know how else to explain this to you. They are saying to their most numerous population, that to get on the new plans, you either have to step your plan down and give up what you may need, or pay more and pay for things you do not need.

        • Fabian Cortez

          It absolutely is free. It (1 GB LTE high speed data) comes with the $50 you pay monthly. It has always been advertised as such.

          As for 3 GB being the most popular: do you have some evidence of this?

          Regardless, the 3 GB plan does indeed gain the benefits of Binge On.

          As far as options go, another option is for the user to do nothing. Their plans will not change. So I am still confused why you’re arguing for or against something that has no effect on existing users.

    • Fabian Cortez

      Very descriptive!

  • SEBA

    The thing is, YouTube has only videos

    • brandon johnson

      Not so much anymore.

  • Loco Mole

    I see where T-mo is going with this. They’re doing something at least. It’s tough to get the industry to work together and standardize the video streaming delivery infrastructure; it’s a fast moving target on a rapidly changing landscape.

    • Fabian Cortez

      This seems to be at least one solution to the growing video bandwidth issue.

  • kgraham182

    I’m guessing BingeOn doesn’t work with VPN, since it has to spy on your data.

    • BingeON is perhaps not conducive to the lifestyle of the Tinfoil hat / paranoid crowd. Thankfully you’re able to disable this feature if you so choose but that’s crazy.

      • Michael Barnes

        It’s a 480 stream so if you have a higher res phone it will look pretty bad but we will have to see how tmo will fix that

      • They should probably not be on-line at all anyway…

      • kgraham182

        VPN service is not only about privacy. I use it watch AU, CA, UK shows and torrent worry-free while my devices think they are in Luxembourg.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Torrenting, no matter if what you’re torrenting is legal, is against the TOS.

        • Loco Mole

          Where does it say that? Tmo’s latest TOS (Oct 4, 2015) doesn’t say that. Section 11 and section 18 do mention of things that are network hoggers, but it doesn’t disallow peer to peer sharing/download of legal content.

        • Fabian Cortez
        • Loco Mole

          Re-read the article. Then re-read what you said above: “Torrenting, no matter if what you’re torrenting is legal, is against the TOS.”

          So, yeah, what you said was incorrect. Please read the TOS before claiming anything. It’s on TMO site.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Re-read the article. Then re-read what you said above: “Torrenting, no matter if what you’re torrenting is legal, is against the TOS.”

          So, yeah, what you said was incorrect. Please read the TOS before claiming anything. It’s on TMO site.

          Sure, ignore Cam’s entire article and the myriad of other articles on the net related to this issue. They clearly are incapable of reading and comprehending the T&Cs.

          So go test it out at length and then get back to us with the results. :)

        • Loco Mole

          Fabian, you know what AND means. Like I said, re-read the article, including the screenshot photos. Heavy unlimited user AND using peer-2-peer, not OR. If you aren’t a heavy unlimited user (re: abuser), you will have no problem using p2p for legal content on Tmo . Those articles are in relation to Tmo throttling. It’s NOT about disallowing p2p universally on Tmo network.

          Try to understand what the articles and forums are saying. Plus, it seems like you still haven’t read the TOS either. Let’s not make things up here. I have and will not hesitate to use torrent on Tmo as I’m not in the category of users that Tmo is after.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Fabian, you know what AND means. Like I said, re-read the article, including the screenshot photos. Heavy unlimited user AND using peer-2-peer, not OR. If you aren’t a heavy unlimited user (re: abuser), you will have no problem using p2p for legal content on Tmo . Those articles are in relation to Tmo throttling. It’s NOT about disallowing p2p universally on Tmo network.

          Try to understand what the articles and forums are saying. Plus, it seems like you still haven’t read the TOS either. Let’s not make things up here. I have and will not hesitate to use torrent on Tmo as I’m not in the category of users that Tmo is after.

          Good. Torrent away.

          Then there should be no surprises when action is taken against you.

          Now if you have any discussion related to the article…

        • guest

          I’ve torrented in the past (linux distros), and us around 50gb or less a month. I have never experienced any action against my account or phone line(s) for torrenting, except with the new data prioritization, which happens not all that often. Now, if I was using 2tb a month, then maybe I should have some action taken against me. I have no guilt or shame that I could be “ruining it for others” or “the cause of the problem”. I use my service responsibly and definitely within the terms of service.

        • Fabian Cortez

          I’ve torrented in the past (linux distros), and us around 50gb or less a month. I have never experienced any action against my account or phone line(s) for torrenting, except with the new data prioritization, which happens not all that often. Now, if I was using 2tb a month, then maybe I should have some action taken against me.

          That doesn’t mean you’re exempt from the terms and conditions just because you haven’t been caught.

          I have no guilt or shame that I could be “ruining it for others” or “the cause of the problem”. I use my service responsibly and definitely within the terms of service.

          No one said anything about guilt. We’re dealing with facts here.

          Your moral compass is your own.

        • Loco Mole

          Happy to have corrected the misinformation or misunderstanding of TOS.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Happy to have corrected the misinformation or misunderstanding of TOS.

          There is zero misinformation to be corrected.

          There are plenty of articles on the Internet related to this and torrents and peer-to-peer.

          I suggest you read them before you feel unfairly targeted by T-Mobile for activities that you believe/feel are sanctioned.

        • Loco Mole

          LOL. Torrent is NOT disallowed on Tmo. Period. Abusing unlimited BW, such as with Torrent, will lead to throttling. Simple as that.

          When did I say I felt unfairly targeted? Like I said above, I don’t fall into that category. I don’t care about Tmo throttling. I was only saying you were incorrect in saying torrent violates Tmo TOS. Wow. You. cannot. read.

        • Fabian Cortez

          LOL. Torrent is NOT disallowed on Tmo. Period. Abusing unlimited BW, such as with Torrent, will lead to throttling. Simple as that.

          When did I say I felt unfairly targeted? Like I said above, I don’t fall into that category. I don’t care about Tmo throttling. I was only saying you were incorrect in saying torrent violates Tmo TOS. Wow. You. cannot. read.

          Sure.

          Now go back and read the articles that relate to the terms of service.

        • Loco Mole

          And you will find what I stated from the very beginning: nothing that disallows legal peer to peer. See, nothing new, just move along.

        • Fabian Cortez

          And you will find what I stated from the very beginning: nothing that disallows legal peer to peer. See, nothing new, just move along.

          Check the terms of service again.

          The language has been broadened quite nicely.

          Reading is your friend. ;)

          I’d hate to have to hold your hand and walk you through it.

        • Loco Mole

          Care to quote??? I did above. Feel free to fantasize that Tmo TOS disallow legal peer-to-peer. You’re way off in your reading comprehension. I’m done here. If you want to stand on your foolish belief and don’t like to be corrected, go right on. Over and out.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Care to quote??? I did above. Feel free to fantasize that Tmo TOS disallow legal peer-to-peer. You’re way off in your reading comprehension. I’m done here. If you want to stand on your foolish belief and don’t like to be corrected, go right on. Over and out.

          I gave you every opportunity to be a grown up and look for yourself. Now it’s just not going to look good for you. Link awaiting approval…

          But just for fun, here are some facts from the latest and greatest from T-Mobile. Emboldened for your pleasure:

          Examples of Permitted and Prohibited Uses of the Service and Your Device

          Unless explicitly permitted by your Rate Plan or Data Plan, you are not permitted to use your Device or the Service in a way that we determine:

          * Compromises network security or capacity, degrades network performance, uses malicious software or “malware”, hinders other customers’ access to the network, or otherwise adversely impacts network service levels or legitimate data flows;

          * Uses applications which automatically consume unreasonable amounts of available network capacity;

          * Uses applications which are designed for unattended use, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections, or applications that are used in a way that degrades network capacity or functionality;

          * Tampers with, reprograms, alters, or otherwise modifies your Device to circumvent any of our policies or violate anyone’s intellectual property rights;

          * Causes harm or adversely affects us, the network, our customers, employees, business, or any other person;

          * Conflicts with applicable law;

          Notice how broad the T&Cs have become? But sure, torrent away (!) whether it’s legal content or not, even though you agreed to these terms and conditions.

          So, you were saying… Who is the one that “cannot. read.” again?

        • Fabian Cortez

          Care to quote??? I did above. Feel free to fantasize that Tmo TOS disallow legal peer-to-peer. You’re way off in your reading comprehension. I’m done here. If you want to stand on your foolish belief and don’t like to be corrected, go right on. Over and out.

          Latest (Effective as of November 14, 2015): http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true

          Previous (Effective March 18, 2015): http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditionsMar2015&print=true – Ctrl + F “peer”

    • guest

      Most people don’t care about that.

      Worrying about privacy is uncool in an age where cool is the ethic.

  • Fuuuuuuuuu

    I look forward to testing this out.

    I mean, I have simple choice unlimited…but I’ll still try it anyway lol

    • Mike

      If you have unlimited data why would you try out binge?

      • chickenfactory

        To see if what Tmo claims is true about the quality being a little bit better than typical streaming. Idk, I am only guessing since I am curious to see if Tmo’s compression thing actually makes 480p videos look better

        • Mike

          You can just stream in 1080p since you’re on unlimited duh there’s no reason to view compressed videos unless your not on a unlimited plan.

        • Acdc1a

          Not quite true. You can tether those compressed videos for free. That’s worth it to me alone as my daughter will blow through 7GB of tethering to her tablet in no time.

  • Don Goyo

    To me this product, together with the new plans, are only the beginning of the end of the unlimited plans, as customers “won’t need them”giving the control of the bandwidth back to Tmo…

    • n900mixalot

      Somebody gets it.

    • DStudio

      I have this concern too. I’m both excited and worried about this new technology T-Mobile’s implemented.

    • Which really is ultimately a good thing; UN-limited is UN-sustainable, especially when pricing encourages people to use a wireless carrier as a home ISP.

      • Don Goyo

        If it’s unsustainable why is the company giving it for “free”…?

        • Acdc1a

          Oh but they’re not. They’re giving it at 480p which is 1/3 the size of standard data streaming. This should improve the network as people switch off their unlimited plan because it’s no longer needed.

        • Don Goyo

          If only 3% of all customers use 21GB or more a month, how having EVERYONE streaming music and video will improve the network? Average user, including many in the unlimited plans, only use 2.5GB a month.

        • Just guessing, but I suspect that since they are turning this on by default for everyone that it’ll result over all in less congestion. If it saves 3X the bandwidth, then even if people watch twice as much they’re still ahead right?

    • Fabian Cortez

      It’ll still be there for those that really need it. It’ll just be cost-prohibitive.

      Verizon had a 100 GB plan for $700 a month. No, it wasn’t unlimited, but for anyone that wanted it they could have it, provided they were willing to pay.

    • ThatsMrtoyou

      Research dude, your rant is complete bullshit

  • I’m shocked at how high single user line plans are going. The deals are all family plan.

    • guest

      Maybe it’s because they know singles have more money to spend, they don’t care as long as you give them some “free” stuff and they don’t have family expenses.

      It could also be the metrics and the data mining, they have us all figure it out:

      We-consume-entertainment = Happy-consumers/”Good Life” = We can pay more.

    • mrpickem

      The industry as a whole caters to multi-line accounts. That’s just a fact. Possibly prepaid or Metro are better options(price-wise) for single line accounts.

      • Fabian Cortez

        Exactly. Verizon doesn’t even deal with ARPU (average revenue per user) any longer. And it’s been that way for quite some time.

        They now deal with ARPA (averse revenue per account).

    • Acdc1a

      Metro for $60 unlimited or $30 if you don’t need a fancy phone or more than 1GB of high speed data is a fantastic deal. On the postpaid side of the house at ALL carriers it’s outrageous.

      • Scott Boyer

        For $65 postpaid or prepaid (plus tax), T-Mobile offers 5GB LTE — then slows to 2G if that 5GB is used. But to keep from using that 5GB, music from gobs of music services and video from 30 some video services (with Binge On–more on the way) don’t count against the 5G data bucket. The 5G and Binge On free video can be used while tethering if your phone can do that That seems like an awful lot more for $5 unless you absolutely need more that 5G LTE for things other than music or video.

        • John

          Do you work for tmobile?

        • Scott Boyer

          I do not.

        • John

          I believe you. A few of the binge defending posters are very dedicated, seem to continuously intentionally keep missing the point, and relentlessly beat the drums for the main talking points that Legere wants us all to swallow. Other posters have alleged that these guys work for tmobile, which seemed very unlikely at first, but as time goes on I have started to wonder. Please accept my apologies for viewing you with such suspicion.

  • Philip

    Why DirecTV and no Comcast? BTW, I hate Comcast.

  • GersonT1000

    It worries me that this feature is a violation of Net Neutrality rules and that this all may come back to bite Tmo in the behind. It doesn’t really affect me as I have the $20 unlimited data plan, but even if I even thought about changing plans (I use about 25GB a month and probably about 15Gb of that at least is through Netflix), I wouldn’t do it because an FCC ruling may force them to end this but the customers that changed would be stuck with the new, more expensive plans. I love my unlimited data!

    • steveb944

      T-Mobile doesn’t offer their own video service over the others, and they openly allow other companies, albeit legal ones, to join.

      Net neutrality is Comcast limiting data, therefore limiting streaming, while their own service is unlimited access.

      • kevev

        You are incorrect.

        “Net neutrality (also network neutrality, Internet neutrality, or net equality) is the principle that Internet service providers and governments should treat all data on the Internet the same, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, site, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication.”

        Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality

        Educate yourselves please or we the internet may become like cable TV with limited choices depending on your income level. This is not what the internet was created for. It was created for equal access for all.

        • Fabian Cortez

          They aren’t charging differently. They are charging differently by data bucket tier: 3, 5, unlimited. That data can be used however you want.

          There are zero kickbacks for accessing a certain service.

          You didn’t understand what you quoted.

        • kevev

          Actually I understand completely what I quoted. We need to first understand the one universal truth. Nothing is Free!

          Either by the increase in cost or by new found efficiencies in T-Mobile’s operations they are now providing “free” streaming of select internet services. T-Mobile is the gatekeeper in this instance for customers who can’t afford “Unlimited” internet. Every video/audio streaming service will need to abide by T-Mobiles rules/regulations. This is against the spirit and regulation of Net neutrality. Research economics in the US and you will see that this is a long lived cycle just repeating itself. Call me crazy until it happens. These guys are out for $ & power. And if you understand economics and sociology you will know that $ is power.

          Also read this: h__p://aattp.org/the-consequences-of-losing-net-neutrality-in-one-horrifying-image/

          I’m not trying to be a jerk. So please don’t take offence. Knowledge is power.

          I’m done. Have a great weekend everyone! :)

        • Scott Boyer

          The FCC has indicated that they will make judgement calls based on issues in regard to net neutrality. In the case of Binge On — it’s a tool T-Mobile provides to customers. Similar to an app that reduces data rate. Or phones that can be switched from 4G to 3G or 2G if they still make such things. The is directed at video happens as that’s the highest use of “wasted” data.If a customer doesn’t want it, doesn’t need it or it doesn’t work for them, they do not have to use it.

          The technology needed for streaming services to fit the program is the most common in existence. Where there are issues, like YouTube, T-Mobile is open to looking at possible adaptation.

      • Jimmy James

        T-Mobile offers a video service. My past three phones have the T-Mobile TV app, which offers many shows that you won’t see on Hulu or Netflix, and a Live TV feature for some networks.

        • steveb944

          You missed the key point. OVER the others. It’s offered equally with the other companies.
          Unlike the Comcast example setting an arbitrary limit.

    • Fabian Cortez

      You. Can. Turn. It. Off.

      • Jimmy James

        They should have an easy on/off app, instead of having to change your plan settings in your account online.

        • GersonT1000

          Yes, and the app should have an on/off toggle widget available to put on your screen.

      • GersonT1000

        I know that “You. Can. Turn. It. Off”. However, as much as I think that this will help T-mobile to get new customers which I like because I think they’re hands down the best US mobile phone company, if I have to view this all as an impartial observer I think they are playing a dangerous game. You can turn it off, but if you turn it off you basically are forced to pay for a higher tier of high speed data plan if you want to enjoy streaming video. So basically, they’re hindering small streaming sites by limiting the audience that they can reach because many people can’t afford the higher tiered plans (especially now that unlimited high speed is jumping to $45/month). Part of the concern which is trying to be addressed by net neutrality is having a situation where the rules will only help to keep the status quo of who the big companies are and small companies that are tying to come up and be the next Vimeo or YouTube or Netflix will have an even harder time doing so because they don’t have the same exposure because of things like this.

        Like I said, I LOVE being on T-Mobile with my $20 unlimited plan, but it worries me what the FCC might think. I will keep my unlimited plan.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Once it starts on the 15th.

          This is more for network management than getting new subscribers.

        • Moby

          Who cares about the smaller sites other than the net neutrality fanatics? T-Mobile is giving the customer what they want which is video without it going against their quota. That’s what is most important. Not some sort of silly philosophical discussion about neutrality.

        • GersonT1000

          I’m not making some philosophical statement. I’m saying I like this for T-Mobile’s customers even though I don’t need it with my unlimited plan. I’m saying it’s not about what I think, it’s what the FCC will think, and what they will do. And if it is something that will hurt the smaller sites, FCC won’t think good things and T-Mobile will pay.

        • ThatsMrtoyou

          Net Neutrality is still being challenged in courts, its not over yet

        • Scott Boyer

          People who use the smaller sights would care.

        • Dustin Roe

          IMO opinion they are enabling small streaming sites if you compare this to what was available before. The small streaming site customer can now stream for free on a mobile device with any purchased data plan which at $10 is cheaper than what you had before with your $20 unlimited. This to me broadens the customer base that would be willing to watch video on their mobile device and therefore enables those who do not have home broadband to access and experience the content of the small streaming site. Those that want to be large consumers of data that is above what is good if not great quality on a mobile device can and should pay for the improved experience.

        • But they’ve said they welcome all (even porn) that format video where they can identify it and compress it properly. Seems simple for anyone?

        • Kiwini

          Never understand unless you’re a stockholder what difference it makes if they get more customers. More customers means a more congested network and likely poorer service for you eventually. It also means as the pie gers bigger, you’re not as important as an individual customer

        • GersonT1000

          Because I’m not making statements based on what is better for me, but more on how I like the way that T-Mobile is changing the game to be better for everyone. If I just think about me, then yes, I hope the customer base decreases so that I can less competition for my signal.

        • Scott Boyer

          More customers could and likely would mean more capital investment. T-Mobile made a lot of capital investment with AT&T money, so likely wouldn’t want to see things go down. They need to be attractive to share holders, customers and potential buyers.

    • mt_xing

      Any and every company is allowed to join for free. That’s T-Mobile’s legal defense, and the FCC said they’ll take it.

    • ThatsMrtoyou

      Do some research bud, You have a huge flawed thought on Net Neutrality works….FYI its has nothing to do with ISP’s

    • Scott Boyer

      From articles on FCC and net neutrality it seems most experts believe that it will be found compliant. The FCC purposely keeps net neutrality open to looking at individual issues as they do not want to stop innovation that might be good. The first look by someone at the FCC says its a good thing. They are looking further. Some people with experience on such matters say they FCC likely wouldn’t stop T-Mobile even if Binge On goes against net neutrality if they find consumers like it and know that eliminating it would cause an uproar.

  • AS118

    Even at 480p, binge on is still a good deal, imho. Adding Youtube to it will probably help add even more subscribers. I just hope that the T-mobile network can keep up with it.

    If a lot of people end up using it for unlimited video, then the “unlimited” data package may disappear entirely or at least be subject to throttling.

    • Acdc1a

      What people complaining here don’t understand is that 480p on a phone, even a 1080p phone (as the rallying cry is) looks good all the way through the 5.7″ devices. It’s much more noticeable on tablets and my TV (sweet Jesus is 480p ugly on a 55″ screen).

      • Fabian Cortez

        Not to mention it’ll be 480p or better.

        Many think it’s limited to 480p without even reading.

        Most importantly, it can be turned off. Unlike another carrier who engages in compression.

        • maximus1901

          i’ll be interested in anandtech’s write up of what the 480p bitrate actually is; google says its 2.5 Mbps but TMO keeps saying they have compression which allows 3X more video.
          I have a hard time believing that means 2.5mbps/3. Even 2.5mbps/2 (for 480p) would be wildly impressive.

          I really think 480p will look fine.
          I have a 32″ TV and when I start playing netflix, netflix displays resolution in top left and sometimes it’ll get stuck on 480p. I definitely see a bump when I go to 720p but 480p is decent. ON A 32″ TV from 10-15 feet away.

        • compression makes a huge difference. Look at HTML5 vs GIF. It’s like a 16 to 1 ratio for nearly the same quality. i wouldn’t be surprised if Tmo can compress any videos by 3x.

        • Fabian Cortez

          It’s only a matter of time really.

    • It’s already subject to throttling.

  • mingkee

    I’d like to see Livestream was included with BingeOn though I will get the benefit through $10 data match with Netflix.

  • Mike

    I’m sticking with my 2 lines for $100 with unlimited everything. Unlimited everything single lines are now $95 which tells me either unlimited will stick around with a high price tag or it will be elicited down the road.

    • Acdc1a

      The vast majority won’t need unlimited going forward. I know I won’t. I will however keep my plan as-is because the same $100 only buys me 6GB per line…

    • Jimmy James

      I am one who will always require unlimited.

      • You’re probably one of the people killing it for the rest of us then.

        • Rocket Scientist

          Three points:

          Since they are doubling the existing tethering level to 14gb, it must not be bothering their network quite as much as you suspect. Obviously they have the capacity.

          Capacity is also only a measure of an individual tower’s capabilities and backhaul, it has NO BEARING on any other tower or city or location. So if I am using 50% of a single tower’s available backhaul (impossible for technical reasons, but example) then your tower on the other side of town…. Is not affected in the slightest.

          Point three: I pay for unlimited data. That means no limits. How I direct those bits and bytes and how many I collect is neither a concern of yours, nor does it affect your life in any way. My largest month was 55gb, FYI.

        • Doubling tethering allowances on their least popular plan isn’t really an indication of… anything.

          Back haul isn’t the only capacity issue, spectrum is too. While LTE is more spectrally efficient than 3G there’s still a limit to how may people can access a site at the same time regardless of back haul.

        • Scott Boyer

          On other plans they doubled the data too. And that data is available for tethering. So it wasn’t only on their least popular plan.

    • dontsh00tmesanta

      I am as well

    • Chuck E Cheese

      4 lines for $180 is only $45 per line for everything unlimited. So if you could had 2 more limes you would save money plus get 14gb hotspot plus free Vudu rental each month with the new Family Match 4th lone Free Promo

      • Mike

        Believe it or not most ppl don’t need 4 lines but it’s still a good deal. It’s just me and my gf currently and I don’t trust friends or family member when it comes to paying there part of the bill I been burnt in the past doing that.

  • Jimmy James

    I kinda feel guilty streaming YouTube 1440p videos with my unlimited data. I might try this out. If it’s decent quality, I will help out their network. Then again, I am one who doesn’t like that people accept cable’s compressed HD signal, or stream Netflix’s SuperHD video at 5800Kbps, instead of renting Blu-rays with up to 40Mbps for their 60-100″ screen.

    • Dustin Roe

      Then you won’t benefit from this service. They are locking in everything not counted against your Data to 480P and you can turn it off on your device if you want to watch higher quality and use your Data.

    • dontsh00tmesanta

      my wife wont be using it but I will as iphone locks down when on lte…

    • Don’t feel guilty. If you can see the difference go for it, you pay for it. Gradually the plans that allow that will make it impractical.

    • Scott Boyer

      To save data on YouTube (or on Netflix too) you can set them to only feed lower quality video to save data. This would accomplish what you want with YouTube without downgrading anything else as a side effect of Binge On. Though, you might find Binge On benefits work for you… such as tethered data is included in Binge On and works when tethered to tablets or computers.

  • josephsinger

    OK. That’s YouTube. What about Vimeo?

    • I’d like to see Vimeo on that list. I think it should be easy enough because Vimeo has a smaller library but many paid users. It’s generally more curated compared to YouTube. Vimeo just needs to compress videos with “Binge On” technology.

  • kbiel

    HTTPS and UDP are not interchangeable. Perhaps you meant TCP instead of HTTPS?

    • Loco Mole

      HTTPS run over TCP, so that was implied, but yes, it should have been worded TCP vs UDP.

      • kbiel

        HTTP/S does not require TCP, it only expects a error correcting protocol on the transport layer. HTTP/S typically runs over TCP for this purpose, assuming the lower layers support it, but there could be individual implementations that use UDP for small, quick documents such as a REST service with small messages that could easily fit in one or two UDP packets. Or it could use some other more esoteric transport layer protocol because the underlying layers do not allow for TCP.

        • We can spend time arguing or we can just agree that all of us knew exactly what he meant through context. I stay away from Linux forums for the same reason.

        • Some people just want to point out someone else is wrong even if they understood. But sometimes people NEED to be corrected, so who’s to say?

  • osxster

    While the author may not understand the differences between HTTPS and UDP, the use of HTTPS (over TCP) and the use of UDP certainly would be a good reason TMobile isn’t able to identify the traffic. YouTube DOES use HTTPS and HTTPS is encrypted. I am sure TMobile has HTTP inspection proxies that read each request going in and out of TMobile and they would easily be able to determine that the user is going to http://www.youtube.com and any of the many associated Google URL’s that uses for YouTube video. YouTube has a large range of IP addreses which they use and it is probably difficult to determine that this is YouTube traffic. In the old days YouTube and Google transmitted everything in HTTP and thus you could read the packet to determine that the user was going to http://www.youtube.com. Now every packet is encrypted and it is much more difficult to see what URL the user is actually going to, their Video Player (contained in the User Agent) and any other data other than an IP address.

    UDP is an IP Protocol and thus it is also not HTTP. So any data transmitted over UDP would also not get detected by the standard HTTP inspection Proxies that TMobile probably uses.

  • Mike strong

    What abour pornhub? Gegigidy

    • What About It ..

      What about it, sounds somewhat perverted…on site about mobile services.

      • Not really, T-Mo said in no uncertain terms porn video could be part of BingeOn too.

  • Laststop311

    newer customers should pay head to this deal. This should allow many of the people that are going to have to start paying 95 a month for unlimited to switch to the 65 dollar a month 6GB plan that will be offered. I mean with youtube netflix hulu espn and 21 others are you really going to need more than 6GB per month after all the streaming is accounted for free? 65 vs 95 will be a pretty big difference when the new plans go into place. If I wasn’t still on the 70/month unlimited I would switch to the 6GB 65 dollars but saving 5 dollars isn’t worth switching but saving 30 dollars is for all the new guys coming in. Just bringing attention to this.

    That is if they get youtube locked up. Youtube us just a huge drain on most people. that has to be included to make the switch off unlimited work well.

    Hell with all that included i bet a lot of people could get by with the 2GB 50 dollar a month plan. for the thrifty even if a few days a month u get throttled it’s not so bad if you want priority access on towers and don’t want to be on a mvno but you want to pay like ur on a mvno the 2GB 50/month plan works out with youtube and netflix free.

    • Cam Fas

      YouTube isn’t included yet I’m glad I’m on the 70 unlimited plan. I like the binge idea. Should help me stay away from the 23gig soft cap aka deprioritization. I know for a fact with binge I will use my iPads data plan now. I never use it because I am afraid of hitting my limit and not having date for travel. But now I will use it. Especially after I disabled all background apps.

      • David Icke

        the data prioritization still will be in effect. Binge On doesn’t stop that from happening, if you’re a majority user on your tower – you WILL still be slowed.

        • Cam Fas

          That may be the case of your using high def data. But if your on binge then your data will never hit the 23gig soft cap. So technically I won’t be deprioritized.

  • Cam Fas

    So all video not included in the binge now falls under the three times more compression? Since YouTube video isn’t free does this mean they will compress the video if it’s 1080p? And then if I turn off 1080p will it compress the standard def YouTube video on top of the lower resolution. Because it would be the equivalent of more then 3 times extra data if it compresses on top of the lower resolution.

    • John

      Unfortunately, the video is not compressed any further. This is the lie that tmobile was hoping we’d believe, when they casually threw around the word ‘optimized’.

      Nothing is optimized, it is simply throttled. Tmobile forces the video provider to downgrade to a low-res 480p by throttling the connection speed down to 1.5 mpbs.

      And tmob wanted us to think that they were ‘optimizing’ these videos in some way. They are not.

      • Scott Boyer

        And YouTube is perfectly able to adapt to the connection speed and provide 480p video, exactly the end result that T-Mobile described. So Cam Fas can watch as much as 30 minutes of video for the data that would be used for 10 minutes at high definition. Could you do that be forcing YouTube to deliver a lower resolution yourself. Yes. But would it come with free streaming on Netflix? No. And hopefully YouTube will join Binge On soon.

  • Cam Fas

    Initially binge will be better for the network tomorrow the network optimization is in effect. The question is what happens after a year when the average person figures out the unlimited aspect.

  • ancho84

    Has this gone live yet?

  • Marco

    yes but I think there having site issues , if u login to account and go to plan options the bing option was there per # and also new plan options but they now have a error so I’m sure itll be up soon again

  • Marco

    its live!

  • Bryck

    Just upgraded my 5gb to the New (6 GB), which is the old ( 3 GB) and saving $5 dollars monthly on the new plan. I can’t see the reason to justify 10 GB bucket at the moment especially with Music Freedom and Bing On included.

  • icwhatudidthere

    Tried Binge-On this morning on my train to work. Best part about it? I’m now able to watch a show on Hulu from start to finish with not a single frame drop or stutter at all. While I have LTE coverage on about 80% of the trip, I still got stutters or just errored out due to tower handoffs. With Binge-On, the quality is obviously lower but not so bad as to be unwatchable and now I don’t have any problems with stutters.

    And on top of all that, I use less data?! Nice. Next test will be what the video looks like on my 10″ tablet.

    • John

      Really? At 480p? What is this, 2009?

      • icwhatudidthere

        Yep. My train tops out at around 90 mph, so maybe it’s just too fast and the area too dense but even on AT&T I got stuttering video.

        • John

          Good point. I commute by light rail and rarely have that problem.

  • Moises Lugo

    Has anyone tested the hotspot yet. I testing it on Netflix thru a web browser on my laptop and it is counting against my hotspot allotment. I called tmobile 2 days ago and special support team is looking into it. As of right now it is still counting against my data allotment.

    • So you mean you’re hoping tethering of Binge On video won’t count against your tethering? Nice try, imagine if that were the case it’d kill the network. Did they get back to you?

      • Moises Lugo

        I tweeted the info with tmobile. The issue has been fixed.
        @ Brett tethering with binge on does not count toward your tethering allotment.

        • Wow. That’s hard to believe. So every T-Mobile user could use T-Mobile for all TV streaming needs? If that’s true it won’t last. It can’t last.

        • Moises Lugo

          They could I haven’t tried it on a tv but the quality would not be great. Tmobile downgrade the quality to 480P. Tablet and my surface pro quality is decent.

    • Scott Boyer

      I do Netflix and Hulu a lot without issue. Crackle was showing up as using data, but after a couple tweets to TM, they got it to work right.

  • SEBA

    Yeah right. Try to watch youtube now at full resolution. It’s buffering every 15 seconds.

  • calvin35

    As an unlimited data T-Mobile customer i can safely say that Binge On sucks. I strongly advise all T-Mobile unlimited customers to call T-Mobile and opt out of the service unless you want constant buffering at any resolution higher than 480p.

    • Light Bread ™

      I JUST DID this tonight. I told the CSR I didn’t want to participate because of what it’s doing to my phone. TWITCH constantly buffers, and it’s the only video streaming service I watch religiously besides youtube. I powered my phone off for the day. I hope TWITCH gets better.

    • Alexia Proper

      Or just log into your account online and turn it off yourself.

    • Shadowsumbra

      Binge on isn’t going to change how long it takes to buffer higher resolution, higher resolution video is ALWAYs going to buffer more than higher resolution video because it needs more data. Do you not understand how any of this works? I have high speed cable internet and sometimes youtube still buffers. If anything binge on will make it buffer less because it changes the default resolution to 480p.

      • calvin35

        You do realize that that Binge On 480p video will be capped at a download rate of 1.5 Mbps right? You don’t get the fastest LTE speeds that the nearest tower will provide you. T-Mobile forces you to stream at a maximum of 1.5 Mbps. That’s where the throttling comes into play. You’ve got some serious catching up to do my friend.

      • John

        The problem is that binge on forces that buffering to happen nearly all the time, because tmobile has throttled the video connection down to 1.5 mbps

        • Shadowsumbra

          That doesn’t make sense, they don’t throttle the speed, they just make it load at a lower resolution. My high speed internet buffers youtube videos pretty often and its a much higher speed than any wireless provider can offer.

        • John

          “they don’t throttle the speed, they just make it load at a lower resolution”

          That is exactly what tmobile wanted us to believe, and that is exactly wrong, which in turn is a large part of why there is a big fuss.

          They DO throttle the speed, down to 1.5 mbps. They tried to deny it. They tried to confused us with BS references to ‘optimization’ and ‘proprietary technology’. John legere dodged the question, and tried to poison the well.

          But eventually they admitted it. Tmob throttles the connection speed, and then the video provider detects that it would be impossible to load higher res videos at that speed and so downgrades the video quality.

    • What you SHOULD do is hope everyone else leaves it on, even if you don’t. That’s makes he network faster for those who care.

  • Zach

    Just another form of censorship….oh we will let you watch this video for free… but not this one?…. who fckng cares what tmobile wants to put out next…. guess what… it will probably be another lie?…unlimited?… yeah, right?.. can’t identify a video?…yeah, right….

    • John

      Yeah, tmobile is lying to us. “Unlimited” means “whatever tmob feels like giving to you, which is currently around 20gbs or so.

  • Dollaz_unlimited

    Well i dont have binge but when im on youtube i notice that it likes to buffer alot especially when im trying to watch something in 1080p so i wine up having to put in on a lower resolution 480p which sucks like hell but all i wanna know is when is this shit gonna be fixs because im tired of watching shit in 480p you barely see what the hell it is that you watching and i have a high end phone i have the LG g4

    • John

      Yeah, its total bullsh1t that they rolled this out as an opt out program, rather than an opt in.

  • Dollaz_unlimited

    And im tired of calling t-mobile and complaining knowing dam well all their gonna do is avoid the main issue and give me the fucking run arounds smh this shit sucks ass i even consider leaving t-mobile and I’ve been with t-mobile every since they first came out smh

    • John

      This binge on BS that tmobile pushed onto all of us has got quite a few people talking about sprint. I think I use too much data to switch to sprint myself, but from what i’ve seen it looks like sprint has been offering better deals in the past, meanwhile tmobile has been raising their prices.

  • John

    If you want to use YouTube again, without stutter (and get rid of the crappy 480p videos on other sites) you can call tmobile’s support line at:

    1-877-453-1304

    They will need (a) the phone number for the line that you use, and (b) the last 4
    digits of the social security number of the primary account holder.

    Also, I looked into Sprint and they’ve gotten a lot better recently,
    meanwhile T-Mobile has gotten worse. Not sure whether I’ll switch but I don’t
    appreciate how T-Mobile is handling this.

    #BingeOff

  • sunK1D

    Binge On and Music Freedom made me switch to T-Mo from ATT.

    I get to watch unlimited Hulu + and stream DI.fm on the go. Hulu on Binge On is actually really good even on my 18″ laptop screen. YouTube is the only bummer as the article has pointed out. Overall though, I’m impressed with T-Mo. Coverage is still not as good as ATT in my area but that’s pretty much ALL ATT still has going for it…

  • Vic Ants

    ATTENTION! If you use use a 4G LTE tablet, T-Mobile data tethering either via your phone, or a dedicated hotspot device you might want to consider turning OFF BingeON for the affected line. HERE IS WHY: If you watch content on a tablet OR tether a device with a larger display (laptop, desktop, or a big tablet), watching video on Netflix, Hulu, etc. (INCLUDING Youtube), will be limited to 480p only. I just experienced this as I own a dedicated hotspot when I attempted to watch a 1080p video on my tethered laptop and it would continuously buffer and not load the video. I called technical support and thought it was a technical issue but my download and upload speeds were at about 30Mbps with approx 60ms PING (more than enough for 1080p video). The tech support gal basically, said, “I don’t know,” and reset my line which OBVIOUSLY didn’t fix the issue. She made NO mention of BingeON!!! My co-worker mentioned it a few minutes after the call and I logged into my account to find, T-Mobile CEO’s letter on BingeON. Reading it, I was surprised! BingeON is automatically turned ON (as if they are doing me a favor)! I instantly called back and complained that I wasn’t properly informed that it would be automatically turned on AND can be turned off by logging into your account. They apologized and gave me a $20 credit on my account. I’ve just turned it off for my dedicated hotspot lines. That being said, in my opinion, BingeON is a BIG win for T-Mobile customers! I will keep it ON on all three of my mobile lines BECAUSE there is absolutely no need for 1080p video on a small smartphone screen (your eyes simply can’t tell the difference). The BIG reason for why its a good thing for customers, is because this will decongest the network, thereby improving service for all customers especially in very busy areas. T-Mobile’s new unlimited 4G LTE service includes a “catch” which basically states that once you reach 25GB within a given billing cycle, your data will be de-prioritized based on network traffic (this doesn’t apply to my account as I signed up for TRUELY unlimited service way back when they began offering it)! So for those of you that do go beyond 25GB, it makes it less likely for your traffic to be de-prioritized as the total network demand goes DOWN when the majority of customers use BingeON. Additionally, those of us that have limited plans, BingeON helps us stretch that limited number of GB even further as advertised. MY BIGGEST ISSUE, is the lack of proper notification and reminder that it CAN BE TURNED OFF! I think that one of the reason why T-Mobile is trying to reduce their network demand is in part because they acquired MetroPCS and now offer a 4G LTE unlimited plan (like T-Mobile’s). MetroPCS customers use T-Mobile towers and that has increased congestion! My biggest fear is that T-Mobile will attempt to do what AT&T did in the past (which is why I left them) and that is to harass users that have been grandfathered in or signed up long ago with the TRUELY unlimited data plan they offered in the beginning. Besides attempting to switch customer’s plans without their acknowledgment, AT&T notified customers that they must pay extra for tethering on a LIMITED data plan! WHY?! If you purchased a limited block of data (5GB) you should be able to use it however you wish (whether its on your phone or tethered to your laptop, you PAID for 5GB)! This is why I left AT&T. I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU GUYS!

  • daz4190

    people should just leave bingeon on whether or not they have unlimited data. mobile-optimized streaming is a good thing for overall bandwidth even if it is 480p. it’s not that big of a deal if the stream quality is a little less. bingeon is a good thing, use it!