HTC Confirms The One S Will No Longer Receive Android Updates

2012-04-30-14.10.23

A sad day for HTC One S owners as the manufacturer confirms officially the device will no longer receive Android updates. In a statement issued to the press, HTC confirms the device will stick with Android 4.1.1 Jelly Bean. All is not lost however as the HTC One S has a lively developer community actively promoting new ROMs and tweaks to help push the device into the future. Sure, we would love to see BlinkFeed and HTC Zoe arrive on the One S with HTC’s official blessing, but I trust that the dev community will handle bringing any of the desired features over.

“We can confirm that the HTC One S will not receive further Android OS updates and will remain on the current version of Android and HTC Sense. We realize this news will be met with disappointment by some, but our customers should feel confident that we have designed the HTC One S to be optimized with our amazing camera and audio experiences.”

Of course this is all very contradictory to a February 20th HTC Facebook posting that indicated “HTC will be offering upgrades to some of its existing devices in the next few months, including global variants…of HTC One S.” Needless to say it’s disappointing that ultimately HTC decided not to extend the life of the One S any longer and concentrate more on upcoming devices.

What say you One S owners?

Engadget

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  • GTR24

    does this phone get dedicated support from the root community? My sensation is dying on me running 4.2.2

    • pkoz

      even that was problematic- some French company slapped a DMCA cease&desist against Cyanogenmod several months ago and One S development fell behind (they’ve only resumed builds this week). Lack of updates, a feedback hum at low volumes, an overly-sensitive touch screen, mediocre display, and corporate chaos have pretty much soured me on HTC. I’m really looking forward to Sony coming to T-Mo…

  • HTC just kicked itself in the rear end.. You dont do this , when trying to make a comeback. N

  • seanmcbizzle

    I am fine with this. My One S operates well with the current updates, and there is nothing ground breaking that I HAVE TO HAVE on my device. I would rather continue having a product that works properly, than have them jam out the next android version when its too big or runs my phone too hot.. like when the Mytouch 3gslide got its update from froyo.. it was a mess and lagged terribly after all was said and done.. Ill take my One S for what it is. A well made phone that I’m still happy with a year and 3 months later. :)

  • fatty1212

    This is why I don’t buy HTC phones anymore

  • glad i made the switch to Samsung … the One S was a really good phone for me .. heck all I ever owned were HTC phones but recent history and disappointment finally pushed me to my first Samsung device and it’s quite honestly the best phone i’ve ever owned.

    • Jose Hernandez

      I agree, I had nothing but HTC phones, was so disappointed i got the GS3 instead of the Nexus 4 because I was not sure about LG. I have never been happier with a phone. I love my GS 3. Samsung has been excellent about keeping their phones updated. My wife got the GS2 and that phone has been updated amazingly.

      Never again HTC. Never Again.

      • Trevnerdio

        Nexus phones simply aren’t allowed to suck. LG is a terrible company, but the Nexus 4 is pretty awesome.

  • HTC is becoming annoying. I love their quality in hardware and features, but they love dropping the ball.

  • g2a5b0e

    Is anyone even surprised anymore? This is why almost half of all Android phones sold are made by Samsung.

    The 2012 HTC One S started off on 4.0 & dies on 4.1.

    The 2011 Samsung Galaxy S2 started off on 2.3, upgraded to 4.0, 4.1, & has been promised 4.2.

    ‘Nuff said.

    • kalel33

      To make it look worse, the Galaxy S2 came out the same time that the HTC Amaze came out and it’s still stuck on 4.0. Every flagship phone from Fall of 2011 has been updated to Jellybean, except for the Amaze.

      • g2a5b0e

        Yup. HTC just seems determined to fail most of the time. I actually like them, so it bugs the crap out of me.

        • DetroitTechnoFan

          I’m yet another who ducked over to Samsung this time around after I decided to relegate my HTC MyTouch 4G to backup use. Albeit, I did it for different reasons. It’s great seeing Samsung devices still taking updates this far down the road because it tells me that they designed their phones to be relevant long after the next big thing came around.

    • Deon Davis

      Yes but the S2 was samsung’s flagship phone for 2011. The One S was htc’s mid range phone. Is samsung low-mid range phone from 2011 on JB? No they are not.

      • Mark

        I’ve owned a phone with an update it couldn’t quite handle (Eclair on the original CLIQ), and it wasn’t the most pleasant experience. If the One S isn’t built to handle newer versions of JB or KLP (which hasn’t even been announced yet) I’m not sure I need to try to cram them in there. I could get that same experience by firing up the old 486 with 32 MB I have sitting in the basement and putting Windows 8 on it.

        • TechHog

          The One S can handle it. Any phone that can handle 4.1 can handle 4.2.

          Also, that is a terrible analogy for many reasons.

        • Tommy

          I’ll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher’s ass by sticking your head up there; but wouldn’t you rather take his word for it?

        • kalel33

          Funny because the One S, which has the same internals as the One X, can’t handle it but the Samsung Galaxy S2 can. Are you saying the Galaxy line is better?

      • Druff

        The Amaze was the HTC flagship that came out at the same time as the S2.

        • Deon Davis

          Yes it was a flagship for T-mo. Correct me if Im wrong it was not a worldwide release phone it did not sale that as much compared to some other HTC phones. The S2 variants was a worldwide release phone. Name another company not named samsung who has updated the 2011 Flagships to JB? Im not making excuses but this is not a “htc” thing its a industry issue.

        • kalel33

          Then Deon, tell me what the flagship phone for HTC was during 2011? If the Amaze or Sensation aren’t flagship devices(or their variants) then HTC never had a flagship for that entire year. Also, the Amaze had flagship pricing, which was the same as the S2.

        • g2a5b0e

          That’s an easy one. The Razr & Razr Maxx are on JB. The Xperia S is on JB. The Optimus 4X HD is also on JB. All 2011 flagships. You know what else ISN’T on JB? The Rezound & the Vivid. The Amaze variants on Verizon & AT&T from 2011. Answer your question?

        • Deon Davis

          wrong buddy most of those phones you listed came out in 2012.

        • g2a5b0e

          I looked it up. I was wrong about the Optimus, but the Xperia S was released in Feb 2012. Considering Sony didn’t release anything major in Q4 2011, I would say close enough. Also, the Vivid came out in 2012, but that doesn’t help HTC’s case at all, does it?

        • superg05

          and……………………..

        • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

          you get a lot of hate. almost as much as me.

        • g2a5b0e

          -Signed, Yet Another Former HTC Customer Burned in the Past

        • superg05

          same here screen got so hot burns your damn face ,random shutoff/restarts , volume rocker fell off i was like wtf cause im extremely careful with my phones and that sh1t just fell off i was done got a replacement sold it not a note 2

      • g2a5b0e

        I would agree with you except, HTC’s flagship for 2011 on T-Mobile, the Amaze stopped on 4.0. Also, even though the One S was the “mid-range” for 2012, it has the same processor as the flagship One X in the States. In other words, you can’t make any excuses for them.

        EDIT: Also, I have no idea what Samsung’s “low-mid range” phones from 2011 have to do with anything.

        • PiCASSiMO

          He does have a point. Some of Sammy’s mid-range offerings are still running 2.3 like the Galaxy S Blaze 4G.

        • PiCASSiMO
        • superg05
        • g2a5b0e

          Yeah, but the fact is that the One S was not a mid-range phone. It has the same processor clocked to the same speed as the flagships that came out around the same time like the One X & the S3. The Galaxy S Blaze has nothing to do with this.

        • Deon Davis

          Yes it does. The One S is a mid range phone that sold horribly around the world. I like the One S as it is a great phone but its no flagship. The One X is getting Sense 5/4.2. The One X is a flagship phone. Never the less if the phone works like it should be happy.

        • kalel33

          The screen on the One X and the One S were the only screen and the lack of NFC in the One S, otherwise there were pretty much the same phone.

        • g2a5b0e

          I never said the One S was a flagship. I said it has the same processor as the flagships of the time. Not just that, but it has a lower screen resolution meaning the processor has to do less work. My simple point is that the One S is just as capable if not more so of running 4.2 as/than the One X & the S3. Defend HTC all you want. The proof is in the pudding.

        • Deon Davis

          I’m not defending them, just stating facts. Yes I know it is a capable phone. but that does not change the fact that it is a mid-range phone and that’s how is HTC sees it.

        • superg05

          and the recipe is on the box tell em honey

        • Trevnerdio

          It’s the flagship for T-Mobile though, since the One X never made its way to T-Mo.

        • 76er

          The glaxy S blaze 4g has been updated to ICS a long time ago buddy

      • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

        For all intents and purposes, the One S was built as a flagship HTC phone on the 4th largest network.

      • Barnassey

        Actually yes quit a few of samsung mid range phones have been updated to 4.1.2 so far like the Galaxy Ace 2 among others.

    • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

      hear hear bro!

  • vrm

    htc is a POS co.- never buy their stuff. It is sad that they take some of the best h/w and put cr@p on it. They’d be better off removing their useless bloat, putting stock android and keep updating. I have never seen any use for ‘sense’ other than to slow the entire system down with bloat.

    • Deon Davis

      Might have been true of older “sense” but Sense 5 is arguably better than stock Android and is fast and fluid.

      • 21stNow

        I fell for that same line in reference to Sense 4 instead of Sense 5. I’m not doing that again.

  • rob

    At least they released the battery fix before they announced this.

    • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

      haha! If they were jerks, they should have just annouced it and left the bug as is!

  • czaplin

    That’s why I dumped HTC. Nexus all the way. Best phone ever!

    • Trevnerdio

      HTC made the Nexus One and that phone is still kicking…great phone. And I had their offerings all the way up till the G2 and I was pretty satisfied with all of them. But then I found Samsung…

      • superg05

        cue holy music and halo over the word Samsung in 3…2..1. action

        • Trevnerdio

          Pretty much.

        • superg05

          thats how i feel about them as well love my note 2 my amaze 4g started falling apart

        • Trevnerdio

          I left HTC at the G2 and went to the S II…then I got the S III…and now I have the S4! Lol

  • Ray

    That’s why the Amaze 4G will be my last HTC phone! One and done. They don’t care after they sell you your phone!

    • Jose Hernandez

      That is precisly right, Once they sell you the phone, you could drop dead. No support, no one bit willing to keep their customers. They just want you buy, buy, buy.

  • JC

    Did their customer loyalty director quit with the rest of those folks?

  • Sam Farias

    I can’t complain as my HTC One S is actually a Sensation which was replaced through warranty service with an Amaze, which in turn was replaced through warranty with my current HTC One S. You could say this is poor build quality or very good warranty service. I love HTC Sense and their docks/dock modes so I will probably stick with HTC. A Nexus or other stock android would be acceptable but me no like touchwiz. Actually I wait with baited breath for a $300 Moto X.
    I should add that the warranty issues were minor, stuff I hear others endure on their devices without complaining to the manufacturer.

    • Jose Hernandez

      I would say poor build quality on HTC’s part and good warranty service on the part of your provider.

      There is a reason why you have had to get all of those devices replaced.

  • TechHog

    This, my friends, is why I didn’t go crazy over the HTC One. Never touching HTC again.

    • Spanky

      HTC One comes with 10 month old software. Does anyone at HTC even know what they are doing? I used to be a huge HTC fan, but they have completely lost their way.

  • blasphemeous

    This is the reason why I’m going to end up switching to iPhone… I’m sick n tired that android phones become obsolete only a year after getting them…

    • Jose Hernandez

      Can’t blame you for feeling this way. But, you may want to try a Nexus phone. That way you are guaranteed to get updates in a timely manner.

    • 21stNow

      Not being the most up-to-date is not the same as being obsolete.

      • Spanky

        HTC sure has a habit of abandoning their devices.

    • Guest

      iPhone? that’s @e073b6d2b7953593b469c819444c3ac8:disqus – Kidding aside, Just make sure get comfortable with the iOS ecosystem, as it’s pretty closed.

    • Guest

      iPhone? that’s blasphemous – Kidding aside, Just make sure get comfortable with the iOS ecosystem, as it’s pretty closed.

    • superg05

      go samsung

  • jonathan3579

    There goes the neighborhood.

  • randomnerd_number38

    I’m very interested in the HTC T6 that’s hopefully coming this fall, but this makes me think twice. Man, can’t we get awesome gorgeous hardware AND decent software support?

    • Spanky

      Of course you can. It’s called Google Edition.

      • randomnerd_number38

        Oh yeah, awesome! Except for the fact that the Google edition HTC One doesn’t support HSPA+ over 1700/2100.

        • qpinto

          aannnnnd that’s whats keeping me from buying a GE HTC one. I want to see how HTC handles the current owners with the HTC one that want a GE edition before it was announced.

        • Spanky

          You’ve mentioned the T6 in your original post, which has already been rumored to have a Google Edition variant. Who’s to say it won’t have 1200/2100 HSPA+ support?

        • randomnerd_number38

          Oh? You happen to have a source on that T6 GE rumor?

  • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

    Big Whop! Given how long and the debacle that occurred on the Jelly Bean update, I think they probably lost half of the One S customers by now.

  • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

    ….and given this annoucement, a riot ensues as speculation is rampant on when the HTC One will cease support

  • BigMixxx

    While it was a good phone, I thought the one S was a mistake on Tmobile’s part, in picking that device vs. the one X.

    It’s not about support, it’s about the 2 year commitment to a device (before the changes). IT also laments the commitment to ‘better’/’higher’ end devices.

    ’twas expected….

    • OZ

      It was a mistake not to offer both versions. Some like 4.3″ screens and thinner devices.

    • Spanky

      The HTC One S has been out for about 15 months and HTC has already abandoned it. Whatever happened to the Google Update Alliance?

  • OZ

    I might end up my 7+ year relationship with HTC. Not the first time they drop the ball.

  • Bennion

    Everyone here is so negative. You know what, the One S is still a great phone, and will be for several more years. A lot of the improvement comes from app updates anyway. We have custom launchers, and they’ll mimic the look and feel of whatever new software comes out, we have the new Android keyboard, Google Now, Swiftkey, pretty much all of the apps on Android are available for 4.1, and probably will be for a several years from now. I have friends that still run Gingerbread and love their phones. It’s unfortunate that there are no more updates, but if software updates are very important to you, you know to get a Nexus next time. That’s a no-brainer. But personally, I plan on keeping my One S for another couple years before I do that. The last update really helped with the battery life. It’s still thin, beautiful, has a great camera, and does everything I need. And when I do upgrade I’ll either get a Nexus or a Windows Phone. But I’ll wait and see how well Microsoft supports WP8 before I make that decision.

    And keep in mind that many iOS devices aren’t getting iOS 7, and Microsoft ditched WP7 users too. I think cell phones just aren’t mature enough to get long-term software support like PCs do, but I think they eventually will be, so just accept it for what it is.

    • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

      agreed, the HTC One S is a great phone. Really the ONLY feature it lacks is LTE radios (which at this point, has paltry coverage on TMo’s network). HTC Sense is a lot easier and smoother to use than TouchWiz. When I sold my One S, I really wanted JB. But after I bought a JB phone, i turned off Google Now (battery issue), the single largest feature of JB.
      looking back, I do question the value of buying a different phone and selling the One S. Though I can’t complain too much b/c my new phone is the Note 2 and it has added many more functions the One S never will deliver. That said, I do miss the HTC Sense and a lot of the stock widgets though.

    • kalel33

      Apple has already stated that the Iphone 4, a 3 year old phone, is getting IOS 7. I don’t see how comparing Apple updating more than 3 years from the release of the phone compares to HTC ditching the phone after a little of a year. That’d be like HTC stating that the Mytouch 4G was going to get Key Lime Pie this fall. MS screwed up and lost many return customers because of what they did.

      As for only getting Nexus device to get updates, you would be correct if HTC was the only manufacturer but Samsung and Motorola keep their phones updated well beyond HTC. The SGS2 is getting 4.2.2 and the amaze is 2 updates behind and will never get another update.

      • casualsuede

        OF course, then you see this (first line of story):

        “iPhone 5 iOS 7 Update Brings Back Apple’s Old Enemy, Dropped Calls
        Posted on July 2, 2013 by Edward Moyles

        It appears that the issue with dropped calls on the Apple iPhone 5 running iOS 7 is getting worse. It is something that Apple need to address when they reveal beta 3, more so when they reveal the version to the public is September.”

        People always assume that just getting new software means a better experience. I’d rather have great working OLDER softwre then being a guinea pig with the LATEST software.

        • kalel33

          Do you understand what Beta means? Come back with a legitimate argument when were talking about a stable release, not a Beta.

      • Bennion

        Of course the SGS2 was a flagship released on all four carriers, and the One S was not the flagship, and released only on T-Mobile. Samsung had a mid-ranger, similar to the SGS2 released at the same time as the One S. It was the Galaxy Blaze, and it only made it to 4.0 and won’t receive any more updates either.

        We all thought the One S would be treated like a flagship, but we were wrong. But it’s still a great phone.

        • kalel33

          Then what about the HTC Amaze? The Amaze was HTC’s flagship phone for 2011, which was released the same time as the S2. The HTC Amaze cost the exact same amount as the S2 and had the same components. The Amaze will be two updates behind the S2 shortly when the S2 gets 4.2, which Samsung already stated is coming soon.

          Same release date, same price, same internals, and both flagship phones but one is left to pasture long ago.

  • lzc753

    I don’t know how Google, Samsung and HTC are doing with updates but is not fair that the HTC Amaze stop getting updates long time ago.
    I got the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy Sll when they both recently came out, and the Amaze is not getting more updates, but the Galaxy Sll is been getting at least 2 updates per year.
    This is ridiculous!!!

    • kalel33

      It’s up to HTC on the updates. They take Android and skin it(Sense) and then they decide if they want to keep updating the phone.

  • tomarone

    I’m a little worried about the ‘Battery Fix’ update. It seems my automatic display brightness is now darkening more, and I don’t like that.

    • Paddy_Tanninger_Caddy_Manager

      sorry! The HTC One S support shop is closed now buddy!

    • Bennion

      Do yourself a favor and buy “Lux Auto Brightness” from the play store. Then you can train your phone to know exactly what brightness level you want in any lighting condition.

  • Josue

    rooting is always a great alternative…

    • peter

      It is but there is a tech knowledge barrier that most of the public will be unwilling to deal with. And most people need the phone to just work. Some, not all Roms do have some sort of little bugs or ticks in them. These are problems that we may deal with. But you would not root and load a custom ROM on a phone ur going to give to ur mom on the other side if the country.

    • kalel33

      But not always a fun one. On the Amaze you have to root, unlock bootloader, and then get S=OFF by using a wire and jumping a connection just at the right time. It’s not very easy to do and HTC made it that way on purpose. Plus, the Jellybean ROMS have major issues to this day, because HTC never released all the kernels.

  • tomarone

    It is a fantastic device and great build they are not selling enough of them to justify continued sw development.

    • kalel33

      You don’t do updates to sell new phones, you do updates so that the current owners are more apt to buy another HTC phone because they know HTC will continue to support their device. The other manufacturers do it, so why doesn’t HTC?

      • PiCASSiMO

        Yes… tell me about these other manufacturers. Aside from Samsung and their Galaxy S2/S3/S4 variants, let me know who also applies continuous updates.

        • JBrowne1012

          Why aside from any thing? BTW LG updated the L9 to Jelly Bean it was an ICS device… either way why should people have to buy new phones every 2 years? why can’t somebody expect their phone to last longer than that?

        • kalel33

          It’d be nice for them to get updated 2 years, but HTC isn’t even updating them more than a year.

        • atari37

          By last longer than two years, you mean the phone stops working after 2 years? Hmm…

        • kalel33

          You mean like the Motorola Razr, which was released in the fall of 2011, same time as the Amaze, and it having Jellybean? Sony didn’t have a flagship phone during that time and yes, LG and HTC are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to updates.

          So not counting Sony because they lacked a”flagship” phone, there are two manufacturers that are good(Samsung and Motorola) about updates and two that are horrible(HTC and LG).

      • tomarone

        I’m sure many owners like myself will upgrade to the One. If they expected 4.2 or 5 on their One-S they might not buy new HW.

        You said that you don’t do updates to sell new phones, then you said you do updates so that owners will buy new phones.

        The money for HTC is scarce and they want to concentrate on One, Max and Mini, the One-S will be dumped on the market soon (great time to buy it) and not supported anymore. Companies have to think about their resources and their bottom line. It costs so much $$$ to keep on updating the One-S and why do it when they are selling and updating the One? So go root it and install a 3rd party open source OS on it. Go to XDA Developers for the One-S.

        • kalel33

          “You said that you don’t do updates to sell new phones, then you said you do updates so that owners will buy new phones.”

          Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it?

          On your excuse on why HTC doesn’t update, even though others do and they used to, you update phones so the current crop of customers who bought your phone are happy. If you don’t make them happy then you lose them to Samsung or Motorola……period. You have to build loyalty and all the loyalty they built, up until they started changing course, is going out the window. They used to be a manufacturer who gave you the most options on a phone and did regular updates.

          Samsung and Motorola learned their lesson and now support their devices. You see which manufacturers sell the most, the ones who support their phones.

        • tomarone

          When you say things like “Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it?” your condescending tone indicates you are an unhappy person. Sorry about that, I don’t stoop to that type of insult It is immature. It’s like when people accuse others in text of being ‘retarded’ It only indicates that the texter is miserable and trying to make others miserable by insulting them. It’s just mean and nasty.

          From what I’ve seen, Motorola hardware is poor (it sucks). Samsung is pretty good, but they themselves have complained that HTC makes more ‘polished’ (non-plastic) hardware, and they have a point, I am turned off when I examine the phones I want (Note-2 maybe) even though I need it. HTC is concentrating now on audio-video, nothing wrong with that, and I bet it makes it harder to update. Their phones use more memory for that reason. You get close to half of the 16GB free on the phone (maybe 1/3) rather than much more on a Samsung. The audio on the HTC Amaze was terrible, I complained, and they improved greatly on the One-S and now on the One. The companies are just different like Apple and Microsoft (and now Googie) are different. I think your arguments and points are very good, and right, but I also have an opinion; I think we are both correct, and have nothing to argue about, really, other than the fact that people seem to think they can be mean and insulting over a text forum. If I am being hyper sensitive about it, I apologize for that, too. I try to be a nice guy and explain things rather than making quick easy remarks that have no meaning.

        • tomarone

          Motorola Hardware is, I hope, getting better. Sometimes it’s pretty good, but not fast enough.

        • kalel33

          I made a point earlier and was a rational statement I made but they you stated the same thing back as if I made some critical mistake. I didn’t but you just didn’t comprehend what I was stating. I probably came across harshly but it’s frustrating when you explain something and another person doesn’t comprehend it and then tries to twist it into a negative. My apologies.

          By the way, Motorola makes great hardware. I was a rep for Verizon for awhile and the Razr, Razr HD, and Razr M are all great phones. The only negative they have is that they tend to break the glass easier on drops.

          I could care less on audio, except call quality, and video is dependent on the source material, not the phone. Audio and updates would have zero impact to the updating of the phone.

        • tomarone

          OK I get your frustration. But I don’t agree on your points. I have a friend with a supposedly new-ish Motorola Droid is it ‘X’? from Vz? Terrible phone, compared to my One-S. Constantly freezing and the touch screen is terrible. Really hard to use.
          But anyway about the audio and video, you’re wrong, plainly. Both are heavily dependent on system software processing both special purpose chips with logic on them but more relevantly, code that is written to interface to the HW that processes video and audio. HTC has and does much more of this, and I imagine there is some cost to making updates when they have to re-interface it to Android. They likely have to do some Android modifications to interface to their processing. There is a lot of buffering and processing that uses memory which is why many people complain that they say ’16GB’ but only 12 GB is available.
          HTC is trying to distinguish themselves as better sound, photos, video. This includes the hardware but also is heavily dependent on system software.

        • kalel33

          The Droid X, X2, etc were the old phones and they are very poor phones. That’s why you haven’t seen any phones released, except for the Razr line since the fall of 2011.

          For the audio, they use Beats software to work as a DAC, to assist in the sound. On the video, they’d have to have their own GPU in order to make the video look better and not take up so much of the system processing but they don’t. They use the same GPU as most of the other flagship phones. Software does very little in playback quality. Take for instance, a video looks the same on my computer whether I use VLC or WMP to watch the video. The only thing you need is the codecs to watch the video and the GPU to process it. Android comes with the codecs and the GPU on the One is not special.

        • tomarone

          This person uses a droid razr maxx. Much worse than my One-S. Also, I’m talking about video and photo recording, not playback. Probably just an audio chip improvement, but in general they at least have to write interfacign SW between Android and their HW. (for audio and video recording, playback is likely not much). Their audio recording on the Amaze used to be terrible compared to Samsung. (the days of Galaxy S2 Vs. Amaze or was it Vs. One-S? )

        • kalel33

          Oh, the Razr phones have never been considered the best for photos and videos. That’s more to do with the hardware than anything else. If you put lower mics and camera sensor then the photos/video/audio don’t come out as good. I could care less about how great the camera is, as long as it’s capable. I have a DSLR for good photos. Samsung’s camera, SG3 and SG4, are as good or better than the HTC phones but they still support the old phones for updating software. The Droid Razr Maxx is a good phone though and it is running Jelly Bean, unlike the HTC Amaze.

        • tomarone

          The Droid Razr Maxx is terrible running Android. Much worse than a One-S. I am not talking about the audio or video but about using the screen, responsiveness, using apps, etc. Maybe because it’s running Jelly Bean I have no idea why,

        • kalel33

          I’m glad you can generalize the product line based on one phone. The Razr Maxx is a very good phone. You know how I know? Because I was an over the phone customer service rep for over 8 months with Verizon Wireless, and The Razr phones were one of least problematic phones. The HTC Rezound, Samsung Stratosphere, LG Lucid, and the Droid Bionic were horrible phones but not the Razr.

  • PiCASSiMO

    To everybody freaking about the lack of update on this 1-year old phone, you are the minority. I wouldn’t be surprised that about 10 to 15% of people even know what version of Android they are running AFTER an OEM like HTC or Samsung has dressed it with their own skin.

    If the phone does what it supposed to, then why do you care if you are running 4.1 instead of 4.2? And yes, I know that with project butter it’s supposed to be much smoother experience, but the skin will ultimately degrade that.

    Just look at the Google Edition versions of SGS4 and One. Both of these, from all the reviews I’ve read run much smoother than their skin counter-parts. But then a few things from the user experience are missing or are changed.

    So if you want something better than 4.1 on your One S, go and root it and install CM10.1.

    • JBrowne1012

      Minority eventually becomes the majority root and rom isn’t always an option. HTC said they were going to clean up their act but that was clearly an empty promise. There are actual points to updates… The longer you retain a phone the more useless it becomes because with no update eventually apps won’t support it and people will miss out and lets not forget security patches etc… theres a lot of reason that you need to be up to date

    • atari37

      I agree with you. A lot of people are getting upset and that’s fine but they should be upset at HTC, Samsung and the likes for not updating their phones.

      I keep on saying this and I’ll say it again. If you want a fancy Android phone, get one from any of the big names (Samsung, HTC, etc). If you want an Android phone with the full Android experience, well, don’t get anything but a NEXUS. A Nexus is how the developer (Google) wants their phones to look and feel. They take full responsibility of updating the damn thing.

      If you get caught up in the gimmicky features the big names bring, then just deal with the fact that they will upgrade if it makes sense to their business model. OR, learn to root your phone and flash a custom ROM.

      None of this is Google’s fault. It might be difficult for some of you to believe but if you develop an open source software and people from all over the world take and modify that software, it is not your responsibility to directly update their modified versions of your software. It’s their responsibility to download the new version of the Open Source project and update it. It’s really that “SIMPLE.” Red Hat doesn’t update CentOS.

      And like PiCASSiMO said, the millions of people not on tech blogs couldn’t care less.

  • Caitlin Bestler

    If I still had my HTC One S I would be very angry. But I went ahead and just outright bought a Nexus 4 precisely so I would not be dependent on HTC.

    The BYOD approach will mean that vendors will face direct ire of customers when they do not support their devices for a reasonable time, rather than having it be diffused through the carrier.

    I would recommend that T-Mobile allow everyone still on an HTC One S contract the option for an early upgrade to an Android 4.2 or 4.3 device. But seriously, just go buy a Nexus 4.

  • Jody Smith

    Phone is too weak to support the added bloatware.

    This phone can’t even keep a good HSPA+ connection and is not worthy of Google’s newest OS. Mine flakes to EDGE and back again all day long.

    Los Angeles, CA.

    • kalel33

      That’s kernel issues, not the OS. One S had the exact same internals as the One X. So if you stated the One S can’t handle an update then the One X can’t handle one either.

  • Waldo Emerson

    My wife has this phone and is very happy with it. It does what she needs it to do and really doesn’t care what version of the android OS it has. She only knows it is an android Smartphone. She loves the form factor and great camera, and sense is easy for her to use. I bet she is typical of most smart phone users. However, those on this site and other tech blogs are probably more savvy than the typical user. Not saying she wouldn’t be pleased with a further update, but let’s be honest here, for a typical user there really isn’t much difference between JB 4.1.1, 4.1.2, 4.2 or 4.3 and HTC know that the typical user of this phone doesn’t really care. If you are power user, you can go ahead and root it, and install a ROM of your choice, but there is no issue for the average owner of this phone.

    I on the other hand have the Samsung Galaxy S3, rooted and hacked the way I like it, but I will say her phone interface is much more user friendly than my s3. So even though mine is updated more than hers, when I offered her my phone so I could get an S4 she preferred to keep hers. So now I will wait for the note 3 and will have to sell my S3 because she still like her phone better.

    • casualsuede

      I agree with you. PEople tend to think constant upgrades are a great thing, when in fact, it often means there are more chances things will go wrong.

      99% of the population would not know what the difference between 4.1.2, 4.2.2 or 4.3, so why cause possible problems with phone stability with software most people don’t know about?

      • khalidalomary

        100000000% disagree people that actually know what the name of the phone they own will actually see the difference and judging by the way u r speaking u own an iphone same software every year different wallpaper

        • wilde_ride

          You are an idiot. Seriously?

        • D Velasquez

          the last time i check your average Joe does not know and does not care what version of Android, iOS is using , all he cares is that it works and that’s it, in my honest opinion the One S is not a flagship device just a better than average smartphone, he is right when he says the phone does what is supposed to do.

          Also please don’t be lazy and write properly , i may have grammar errors but i dnt write like u r doing it it, u should write properly, like and adult not like a teenager.

        • kalel33

          The One S was the exact same phone as the One X, except with a smaller screen. If it’s just better than the average smartphone then so was the One X.

        • Bklynman

          I agree with what other people are saying here about all the deferent upgrades,few Weeks ago Samsung release
          upgrade for S2,people had major problems with it.
          I never upgrade my S2,when I 1st got it. But now it is stuck
          boot loop,find out from the shop it is common problem
          with Sammy. Right now I am using My touch G slide
          with the org.os without no problem. Most people want
          a phone that’s work. My personal view is this phone makers,
          the carrier’s want people to buy new phones every year,
          they don’t want people to keep using a phone 3 years or more.

        • casualsuede

          You can judge all you want, but considering that you don’t come close in your observations just proves me right. The only iPhone I’ve ever used was the 3GS. Since then I’ve used the Samsung GS3, Droid RAZR MAXX, DNA and the HTC One.

          Only big upgrades, like 2.3 to 4.0 are the only times where a user would see a major difference. To 99.5% of the rest of the smartphone using public, 4.1.2, 4.2.2, 4.3 are just numbers.

        • khalidalomary

          say what you will i’ll still disagree anyway lets get on with life

    • Ĵϵṟϵṃψ Ψαñ

      Perfect. Then HTC or some other Android phones are for people like that: who use their phone as feature phones.

  • peter

    This has been a long running pattern from HTC this trend of short lived support and lack of a good phone with a good battery life made me jump a long time ago.
    I am comparing the length of support with companies like Samsung who still supports older phones.
    The price we pay we should get updates for close to the life of any contract but HTC uses the software as a way to force people to buy new hardware just to get the latest software.

  • casualsuede

    While I don’t own the HTC One S, sort of love the comments from people who suddenly declare the One S a “completely useless” phone because it won’t go from 4.1 to 4.2. As if anyone on 4.1 either now or in 2 years means you are “missing out on something”.

    I know 5 people with the HTC One S and all of them are happy, and none of them know what version of Jellybean their phone has. None of them will be crying in their beer if their device doesn’t have KLP. Nothing in any update in software will make their lives any more better, productive or different.

    Again, Google is helping wreck the ecosystem with so many updates (and my technical account manager friends on ALL OEMS – Samsung, HTC, and Sony Ericsson tell me constantly upgrading phones often make a phone less stable).

    Why can’t Google release an single version OS that can actually last a year? I feel that is a bigger issue than whether or not a manufacturer will update to which software.

    • superg05

      google put together a framework that makes it easier to update even in pieces so who’s fault is it ? Samsung seem to update pretty well not to mention if people on xda can do it why are they not able to?

    • tomarone

      There is nothing wrong with frequent updates. The OS versions they do release have a long life also. Both are true. Your comments are very good though. The fact that apps run on old versions is the most important thing, and that they get updated to run on new versions quickly (if necessary).

    • wilde_ride

      I agree completely, Google is killing Android. I’ve even read reports Samsung is thinking of developing their own os so they can control it with some sense of competence.

  • Nick

    I think this is ridiculous but I can’t say I’m surprised given that this is HTC we’re talking about. I bought a One S the day it came out thinking it would get 1 major update and hoping for maybe 2 or 3. This phone absolutely has the guts to run 4.2 but HTC doesn’t want to support a product that’s been out for barely a year. Small wonder they’re in such trouble. Maybe it didn’t sell well but I’m very happy with it other than the screen.

  • Noah James

    Does anyone know what I would be able get if I sold my stock google nexus 4 (16 GB) version? Also do any of you know of websites to sell a phone not named Craigslist and or Ebay ?

    • thepanttherlady

      I personally only ever use Craigslist. Sold mine for $300 but it will depend on the area you’re in.

      • Noah James

        what model did you have the 16 GB version? Thanks 4 the reply.

        • thepanttherlady

          Yes, I had the 16GB version. I priced it to sell quick, sold it within an hour of placing it.

        • Noah James

          Okay, I will definitely look into it once I am ready to sell the nexus 4. what do you think T Mobile would offer for it?I know they pretty much steal you blind but I’m curious.

        • khalidalomary

          tmo will only offer like 100 max

    • JJCommonSense

      I’ve used gazelle and buybackworld dot coms personally…… and both have done quite well.

      • Noah James

        could you give me a range of what you got back for your device also what device was it? Thank you for the reply much appreciated.

        • JJCommonSense

          I don’t recall as it’s been a while. I know I got like $150 for a T-mobile Springboard tablet from buybackworld most recently. Their websites will offer you quotes and will even pay for shipping. They also use paypal. You could probably get a bit more on craigslist, to be honest with you, but these sites (to me) offered convenience and security. I didn’t have to meetup with a stranger or deal with a bunch of e-mails or phone calls… I sent my item in and give it about a week, and the money was in my paypal.

        • Noah James

          Yeah,there are some strange people in today’s world.

    • krazytrixxxsta

      Try CEX. I’ve sold my old mytouch phone and some games to them.

    • jmendenhall80

      I had great luck on Amazon.

  • Trevnerdio

    Wow…nice going, HTC.

  • Chris

    HTC ‘should feel confident’ that I’m no longer interested in purchasing their products. This phone isn’t even old enough to have been paid off in a 2-year contract.

  • superg05

    and the s2 has been updated how many times

    • TBN27

      I should’ve kept it around to see if the jellybean update would’ve fixed the issues I was having.

      • Guest

        I have a GS2 still. Updated to JB and its pretty awesome. I don’t have any plans to replace this phone anytime soon. I even just purchased a battery.

        • TBN27

          That’s great. Us your phone loaded with apps? When I Had mine, it had over 100 apps of which 90 of them I used. When u got the ICS update, it became possessed. But I am happy to hear that yours works wonderful. The GS2 (SGH-T989) I feel is still a premium device.

        • Guest

          Ah gotcha. I probably have about 12 apps i actually downloaded and use. Everything preloaded and i didn’t use, i disabled through android menu.

        • TBN27

          Ok. Maybe I should’ve deleted some of mine. Thanks for the info.

  • superg05

    so long HTC One S we hardly knew yee…..

  • Guest

    Got the HTC One and I have to say it is quite possibly the perfect phone. It could use an 8 ultra pixel camera but that’s the only thing I would change. It’s going to get 4.2.2 and the stupid menu bar fixed! So happy I ditched my note 2 for this.

  • Graham Blackadder

    Shocking! A 14 month old HTC flagship phone not getting supported? Hence why I refuse to buy HTC products still. They have obviously not learning any lessons over the last 2 years.

    • Brandon Cruz

      The One S isn’t a flagship phone – it’s a midrange device. The flagship for this series is the One X.

      • Graham Blackadder

        No Einstein u are wrong so please do your research. The one S and the one X were both classed by HTC as flagship phones when they released the ONE line 14-15 months ago. Yes the X had better specs but both were officially classed as flagship by HTC and all you have to do is go look at 8 of the top 10 android sites and you will see the word flagship!

  • DiamondAvatar

    We only got like ONE major update. That is why it is called the ONE S! Tisk Tisk.

  • BuyMotoX

    History repeats itself AGAIN with HTC and the 2761 idiots who bought them are complaining, AGAIN!

  • wilde_ride

    I can’t say that this is really an HTC issue. It’s what you get when you are part of Android. With so many versions of Android and so many devices we can’t get the once a year, all included updates like iOS. Android users need to understand that probably the version of Android that’s on the phone when we buy it is going to be the only version we ever get. My One S is still a nice phone with a great camera.

    • Spanky

      Instead of bloated OEM/carrier variants, get a Nexus or a Google Edition. Problem solved.

      • Noah James

        I would my only problem is I want to make sure that the device supports HSPA 42 along with T-Mobile LTE. Until I am 100% sure it supports the both of them I will go will a Nexus 4 or next Nexus.

    • Jose Hernandez

      You do know that when iOS updates on older devices not all features are included. Right? You do not get all the features on older devices when the next version of iOS is released. There are features that the iPhone 4 did not get when it was updated. The iPhone 4S did not get all the features neither when it was updated. The iPhone 5 may or may not get them all when iOS 7 is launched.

      This is a well know fact.

      • kalel33

        Iphone 4 only missed out on Siri for IOS 5, which all the Iphone owners I know never use anyways. With IOS 6 Iphone 4 didn’t get native turn by turn but it’s turn by turn is a joke anyways and it didn’t get panoramic, which most people never use anyways. Iphone 4S didn’t miss any features when it was upgraded to IOS 6.

        • Jose Hernandez

          You did not find the missing features usable and are OK with not getting them. I can respect that. But others wanted them and did not get them. My point was that when you get an update to the new ios version, you do not get a full upgrade. Your original post here said you got all included updates with ios. That’s not correct, Android devices have their issues with updates but for the most part those updates are full updates.

        • kalel33

          Panoramic photos can be done with an app. The turn by turn was so bad that Apple told customers to use a different turn by turn.

          As for Android, they do miss out on things in updates. Look at HTC, for example, they give the newer Sense to the new phones in updates but leave the old Sense on older models. The newer Sense updates were supposed to be leaner and faster than older Sense versions, so why didn’t they get it too?

          On Samsung, the update didn’t bring almost any of the goodies on the S4 to the S3 when it was updated, you have to buy the new phone.

          Also, quote me where I stated that you get all included features in updates with IOS.

  • Matt

    Even though I am pro open source, Android has just become too messy to deal with. This is why I’m an iPhone user. I want something to just work as reliably as my feature phone. I get sick of the freezes and memory leaks. The iOS ecosystem, while locked down, is much more stable.

    • tomarone

      iPhone has such boring hardware. You have 5 major manufacturers and gazillions of Android phones all with different hardware capabilities. Android runs like a charm and is open enough for manufacturers to do their own special magic.

      • Guest911

        Waaaay to miss the point champ.

        • Loser

          I don’t think he actually missed the point – Just because you don’t receive any updates to your phone does not mean it’s unstable.

          On the converse, assuming they leave you with a valid update, stability frequently implies that things are not changing.

  • Xanderalmighty

    This makes me worrisome of my HTC one now.

    • Phil

      Ha! My phone only last me 8 mths.

    • Dominique Wilson

      I wouldn’t worry too much about that. The HTC One being the only flagship phone released this product cycle means better support. This phone is THE best phone they have made and they want to push it for a while. I figure 2 software updates.

      • TechHog

        And it already got one, the next is 4.3… so no Key Lime Pie? That would be pathetic, especially after the GS3 and Note 2 get it.

      • GameBoi/KillaBit

        Yea, but like their older phones were the best phone made, roll over a year and it’s dropped like a hat.

  • Jesus Villafranca

    This is the reason why I made the jump from android to ios….heck, I still have an Iphone 4 which was released on 2010 and will still be getting updated to ios 7… 3 years later..its closed ecosystem but heck, at least apple stand by their products much longer..

    • GameBoi/KillaBit

      You may get a new theme and a new version number, but you’re missing out on a lot of features that are just apps features like Siri and others. What’s an update when all the features missing? That’s like the One S getting Jellybean without google now.

  • If HTC were to invest more into software for their old phones it would be an investment in their brand image. Consumers like ongoing support.

  • danny

    After jacking up my OS to this pos jellybean, now u won’t offer and further updates. Great…just great. I use to love my phone. This sucks. What can I do to roll it back?

    • Nick Gonzalez

      Check out the XDA developers forum. You may find answers there dude.

    • GameBoi/KillaBit

      Back up all your personal data like pics and videos and factory reset. It should take you back to the og OS. (Not sure if the phone launched with ICS or not, if not, then like Nick said, check XDA. It’s pretty simple steps.) Goodluck.

  • Noah James

    People can comment on the article saying my iPhone has been supported by apple for 3 years they don’t get thumbs down but when I comment reaching out 4 a website to sell a phone it gets thumbs down. Really? It’s all related to the general topic of phones/technology. If the people thumbs down my comment then do the same 4 anything else not related to the article/HTC.

    • kalel33

      Because Iphone updating their phones is relevant to the discussion. Where you want to sell your Nexus 4 has absolutely no connection whatsoever to any of the points brought up in the article or comments.

      • Noah James

        I never said it was brought up in the article now did I? what I said was I talk about a generalize topic of technology on a website about mobile phones more specificly T Mobile and my comment gets voted down, really?

        • kalel33

          No, you asked a question that was not a general topic about T-mobile, it was about selling used devices on different sites. You’d have been better off doing a Google search, instead of asking a completely off topic question to the article in the comment section. The updates to Iphones and how that compares to HTC is a relevant topic. It’d be like me asking which app on my T-mobile phone can I order hookers from that wouldn’t get me busted. It doesn’t matter, because it’s not relevant to the article or comments.

        • Noah James

          Okay, sorry about that.

  • Singleweird

    BOOOOOOOOOOO, can they at least update google now so the widget doesnt glitch every 2 days?

  • Dominique Wilson

    I agree its always disheartening to hear of a relatively recent android phone no longer being supported. However, this phone was not the flagship in its series (remember the HTC One X). Manufacturers and carriers could keep updating phones until they brick but there is a certain point when a product reaches its update life cycle.

    • kalel33

      The Amaze was a flagship phone and it was abandoned a long time ago, when other manufacturers were still supporting their phones, that were released the same time.

  • Bklynman

    Let see,this is the 5 high end phone HTC will not upgrade for TM.
    Let’s count,The Sen. The Amaze, The G2,The MyTouch4G,slide. Not
    sure if the G2 or The 4 slide got updates. If not,then it is 5 in a row.
    But since The HTC one is being sold on all carriers,I am sure,it will
    get some updates,but if not,you can’t were not warn.

    • Nick

      The G2 shipped with 2.2 and eventually was upgraded to 2.3 after a really freaking long wait for a phone that was almost stock android.

  • Dakota

    This is why people are frustrated with Android. I know I am – even though Im using a Galaxy Nexus. Just too many issues with Android – this lack of updates is only one although its a big one

  • Dakota

    If you want your Android phones updated, Samsung and HTC have already told you they are not the devices to go with. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. So youre left with Nexus devices as youre only hope. I dont know if and when we’ll see a new Official Nexus…Whether it will still have the low #350 price or whether we are going to get a major OS upgrade (since rumors are saying a minor 4.3, which is not going to be a great way to compete with a new Fall iPhone). I read an article the other day where LG said the reason the Nexus 4 didnt have LTE was to save money. So if a new Nexus device on Google Play ends up in the $600 price range, it becomes much less attractive.

    • TechHog

      Samsung? They’re slow, but they definitely support their devices with enough updates. They just announced that the GS2 is getting 4.2 for example.

      • dabbler

        I was pretty pissed when HTC decided to stop supporting the Amaze 4G after just one update (ICS) and decided not to ever buy anything from them again. So I’ll probably buy a Samsung phone next, unless they start imitating HTC.

    • AGuyAndHisPhone

      Yet the N4 does have LTE, Just not turned on. For example, you can hack the LTE on and if your in a region of the world, Canada for instance, it will work. So what’s this about N4 has no LTE to save mony?

  • Shawndh

    I’m not surprised at all. Actually, I just rooted mine and hacked the hotspot so I can share the internet connection. The phone actually works better on the original firmware with a few hacks from XDA. The battery life is def better on ICS and that’s a major concern because the battery is generally weak. I don’t think this little slim battery was ever designed to handle Google Now anyway, that’s why I switched back to the original stock ROM. If you want new features buy a new phone. If you want updates, get an iPhone or a Nexus device. I’m leaning towards getting a Nexus 4 personally. But that is pretty pathetic for a so called “flagship” phone.

    • AAAA

      The One S was never a flagship.

      • dtam

        is was for htc offerings @ tmo

        • ADudeAndHisPhone

          Danny speaks da troof

  • Bklynman

    Everyone on here telling that who is upset,with HTC,to go out and buy a Nexus phone,
    next time out to get updates. OK they are now on to Nexus 4,so that’s telling me,
    there were 3 others phones with Nexus label. Should not those phones still be
    gettings updates too? Was not The Nexus 3,made by Sammy? How many updates
    did that one got? The Nexus one was it not made by HTC,how many upgrades did that
    one got? I believe it just got just 2. So telling people to buy Nexus phone to get updates
    When the most you will get is one or two.I could be wrong,is Sammy still updating,the 3,
    does anyone knows for sure if they are.Who made the 2,anyone,up dates for that one
    to.

    • Jack

      What are you talking about? What you’re calling the Nexus 3 which is actually called the Galaxy Nexus has received every Android update since its release including the latest version. And it’s not updated by Samsung, but by Google. Please get your info straight.

      • Bklynman

        I didn’t say it wasn’t getting,updates. I was asking if it did.
        Because Nexus one only got one? Maybe 2the most.Again it was
        also made by HTC. Before The Gal Nexus,who made the 2? Is that
        getting updates? All I am saying just because a phone is
        call nexus doesn’t mean it will get updates,if that was the case then,the 1st,would still be around.

        • Nick

          The Galaxy Nexus is still getting updates.

        • TechHog

          In order:

          Nexus One (HTC)
          Nexus S (Samsung)
          Galaxy Nexus (Samsung)
          Nexus 4 (LG)

          It’s not bout the number of updates (especially if you’re only going to count major ones for whatever reason), but rather the length of time they get support and the fact that they get updates right away.

    • TheDash

      The Nexus S is even running 4.1.2 next time you post please be informed.

      • Brad C

        and how awful does that phone run now, that phone honestly should have never even gotten ICS, as that’s when i got rid of mine because of how slow and awful that phone was after the ICS update.

    • GameBoi/KillaBit

      I get what Bklynman is saying, even the Nexus phone only get about two huge updates and then their minor tweaks/performances updates. The Nexus S started out with 2.3 and stopped at 4.0 by google and is it gotten more, then it was a small one or a 3rd party. GN went from 4.0 to 4.2 I think, Nexus One went from 2.1 to 2.3. So like he said, even the Nexus only get about two and then it’s out, mainly cause of hardware and lack of RAM. This may not be an issue for a while for the 4. Plus updates doesn’t really matter anymore from a stock standpoint, cause you can just download the Google apps now. Plus most update slowdown your phone cause your phone wasn’t built to run that OS. I have a Note 2 with 4.1 and is happy and don’t care for 4.2 or 4.3 or even 5.0 in the future, my phone is gonna run fine.

      • Bklynman

        Thank you. You said it better than I did. I think the next phone I get will,is
        the best phone Tmobile ever sold,HTC,ever made. HD7. Some people,installed
        Windows 8 on that phone and selling it on Ebay for les than $200.Beats paying
        $500+ for a new phone now.

  • Brad C

    Honestly, 4.1.2 has been buggy as can be on my Galaxy Nexus as well as my GS3, i find myself using my One S more often than not because of the solid software. I say this is a good thing as 4.1.2 did not change enough to be an issue and not to mention with the limited internal storage, it’s not like it’s going to be overly useful for much longer anyway as apps and andorid just keep getting bigger.