T-Mobile facing class action lawsuit in Florida over allegedly deceptive no-contract plans

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T-Mobile is now facing a class action lawsuit in Florida.

The lawsuit, brought by Moshe Farhi, alleges that T-Mobile is deceiving its subscribers by advertising itself as having no contracts and no hidden fees, while it sends those customers a bill for the remaining balance on their devices when they try to leave T-Mo. The complaint argues that T-Mo is violating the Florida Consumer Collection Practices Act and the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act.

“While T-Mobile’s service agreement — consistent with its marketing — does not prevent consumers from leaving for other service providers,” the complaint reads, “its attempts to accelerate amounts due under the device agreement unlawfully penalizes customers who leave T-Mobile.”

Farhi says that he bought four iPhones in June 2015 and borrowed almost $2,600 that would be paid in 24 monthly installments. He ended up canceling after two months because he was unhappy with T-Mobile’s service, and T-Mo responded by sending him a bill for the remaining amount on the four phones.

Farhi is filing an accelerated charges suit against T-Mobile for saying that no changes would be made to the loan agreement that it acquires from the third-party bank, but then sending a bill for the remaining balance when the customer cancels service. T-Mobile customers don’t agree to any acceleration provision in their agreements, says the complaint.

The suit is being brought on behalf of Farhi and all other Florida residents that were sent a bill for the remaining balance of a device agreement after leaving T-Mobile. The complaint includes anyone that’s been affected by accelerated charges within four years of today’s filing.

Via: BGR
Source: TopClassActions

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  • Hurlamania

    Well every company has the same practice. 2. if they went to a new provider they pay the fee to pay off the phone. 3 The fine print states the balance is due.

    • Tim

      The issue is having s contract to cancel before there would be a 175 fee to cancel… Now you have to pay off the balance of the phone which could be up to 900 dollars so that’s how they get you. But NO the phones aren’t due all up front because I canceled service and I make monthly payments on mine

      • Fabian Cortez

        Before there was a service contract and the monthly plans were more expensive as they included the price of the device.

      • jonathan3579

        I was gonna say this very thing. I could have sworn one of the uncarrier moves was to allow you to keep making payments on the phone even if you leave them..

        • moss

          That was with the lifetime coverage guarantee. But you needed to have a band 12 capable device on JOD and have coverage issues.

      • Gaius_Baltar4

        You’re not looking at the whole picture. Back when ETFs were less the cost to acquire phones out of pocket was more.

        Either way typically on 2 year contracts the out of pocket cost of the phone plus contract cancellation cost of the phone was usually equal to or more than full price of phone

        Now phones are $0 down so obviously there’s more owed on the back end. If you hypothetically put a down payment equal to the contract pricing on a phone it would be the same
        thing owed on a contract ETF

  • jroblopes

    OMG – Righteous entitlement at its best. Expecting a free phone is ludicrous.

    • John Doe

      It is not free. They would still pay but the way they initially agreed over a 24 month period instead of an accelerated payment.

      It is like if you go to home depot and you buy a fridge or whatever and get an 12,18, or 24 month payment plan with no interest rate. Even if you cancel your credit card they don’t charge you the full amount right away they let you pay it off normally but you can’t use the card.

      Since T-Mobile in now in the finance industry they need to follow the same rules all the banks follow and not make their own.

      • Lost_Fan

        Sorry, but they tell you that up front. If you cancel service, you owe the balance of the phone. That’s the agreement you sign. This is a BS lawsuit.

        • Brian

          As stated above, the law doesn’t see it that way. If I’m a killer salesmen and I talk you into buying land that is all swampland, a court can find me guilty if violations against the FCCPA or the DUTPA. Yes, you signed. Even if you knew it was a bad deal, you can still bring a lawsuit so that a judge can weight the content of the contract/ agreement against ethical standards.

          We can all agree that T-Mobile did not intend nor actively pursue a violation of the DUTPA. It’s just a lawsuit. Lawsuits are brought up every day. And yes some may be frivolous, as a citizen you still have a right to your day in court.

          After reading most of the post here, I can see a lot of you sit behind a T-Mobile desk. It’s not about you. It’s not even about your company. It’s about a trend in the industry that seems fair on the surface. But can, and in this case does show a deceptive sales practice. If he even gets to Court, most likely this will change the way installment billing is handled by all of the carriers. Which can be a good thing.

          Imagine wanting to buy a Verizon device but not get Verizon service. Verizon can charge you interest as a form of payment to sell you a device with no contract. They’re not required to do an installment Billing at 0 interest.

          As referenced, a Verizon Samsung S7 can be used on all carriers with the exception of sprint. It has all of the antenna to work on any GSM carrier and is unlocked. So, I can buy a Verizon Galaxy S7 unlocked and have my service through T Mobile. I can do that as a consumer, because the Verizon S7 is cheaper than the T-Mobile S7.

      • JaswinderSinghJammu

        Yeah but if you call the credit card and say you want to close the account and you haven’t paid off the balance they would want the payment right away right?

        • Fabian Cortez

          Two different things here.

          Credit card is for credit. That’s it.

          T-Mobile is for service and they are also extending credit for a device to make payments on. If you don’t agree to their terms then you shouldn’t sign the dotted line.

          The terms are clear.

        • AnthonyReyes

          Yes but when someone is not happy with your service you provide should that person really be force to pay the full amount right then and there. Seems everyone would be rooting for this guy. Since the terms in a sense forces you into a contract for said service just so you dont get hit with a big bill

        • Fabian Cortez

          This is untrue.

          Getting service with T-Mobile does not require getting a financed device with them. Potential customers have the option to pay for devices in full or bring their own.

          Previous two-year service agreements required potential customers to sign contracts which tied them to devices. If someone didn’t want a contract, the only other option was prepaid.

      • Rocco Gallo

        If you call tmobile they will allow you to make payment, just like anything else they send you the full bill then you call and make payment arrangements simple

      • jroblopes

        All advertising clearly states balance of the installments be paid in full when terminating the service.

        I’m no lawyer or know the language. In my opinion, Tmo is helping people get access to a device that falls beyond their means.

        Thanks for your view.

        • Brian

          Just because it is written down and signed does not mean it is legally binding. Deceptive acts are just that, and a Florida court could see it differently than you.

        • jroblopes

          I’m not sure I follow you Brian. Thank you for your view.

          I’m not sticking up for T-Mobile, but it clearly states “IF YOU CANCEL WIRELESS SERVICE, REMAINING MONTHLY PAYMENTS ON YOUR EIP AGREEMENT BECOME DUE.
          X 24/mos. 0% APR ON APPROVED CREDIT FOR WELL-QUALIFIED CUSTOMER.”

          And above the order button – “If you cancel wireless service, remaining balance on phone becomes due. For well-qualified customer. 0% APR, O.A.C. Qual’g service req’d.”

          Now we all know “Unlimited” has a very different meaning to the carriers compared to the English dictionary. I suppose Deceptive (giving an appearance or impression different from the true one; misleading) does as well?

          John Doe does have a valid argument because if T-Mobile is a creditor, then they too are bound by the same rules as other creditors, then it makes sense.

          Most of your rights can be signed away, which I’m strongly against. For example a Non-Disclosure Agreement with say Microsoft requiring you to agree to prior to helping you solve an issue with the Windows Operating system…. Or Arbitration clauses remove your legal right to sue. Now that all carriers have an Arbitration clause, that should be illegal and void due to involuntary collusion by all carriers.

        • Brian

          The FCCPA and The DUTPA work to stop companies from helping people “sign their rights away”, in the case of buy here pay here or payday advance companies. The protections are not perfect but do keep companies from overstepping their moral and ethical standards.

          I cannot see why T-Mobile wouldn’t allow the customer to continue paying for the phone, even after service cancelation. In essence they are becoming a retailer with options to pay over time.

          Again, I do not think T-Mobile is trying to do anything deceptive; A court may see it differently.

      • Brian

        I agree.

  • En2Mente

    They tell you this when you get the phone

  • Deswaga

    Toss it out already!!

  • Yeah, this case doesn’t have any legs to stand on. T-Mobile clearly states that you’ll have to pay off the device if you switch to another carrier, so this guy is clearly just trying to get out of those fees.

    • AnthonyReyes

      nope he is totally happy paying the monthly payments, his lawsuits is saying it isn’t fair to force to pay the full amount all at once because he canceled his service because it wasn’t satisfactory

      • SBacklin

        Yeah, for me, there still are contracts. It’s just a different kind (first service, now EIP). I never liked the no contracts ads because there are contracts. I think it would be nice to just continue device payments after leaving a carrier. Now I would even accept a small APR in that scenario since the carrier is no longer making any profit on the account. Why should they do a zero APR devices loan to non customers? I think a SMALL APR would be a fair trade off.

        • Acdc1a

          Don’t finance your phone and you have no contract. I have 4 lines I can pack up at will.

        • SBacklin

          You’re missing the point entirely though. They advertise no contracts but, of course push you to EIP. I’m glad there are options but the fact remains that they advertise no contracts when there still are, just financial and not service and they assume that is what you’re doing when you come in and heavily advertise. That was the only issue I had with it. I guess one analogy one could use is that T-Mobile is using the word of the law to defeat the spirit of the law. There ads give the clear insinuation that coming to T-Mobile and there aren’t contracts. However, the wording in fine print points out the exceptions or the real story. They advertising is them trying to defeat the spirit while their actual agreements are the wording. I hope the analogy I used makes sense. Lol.

          I just wish they would stop the half-honest ads of no contracts because its only partially true. If they would stop the no contract ads then I would have zero issues with them. They can continue the EIP ads all they want. They can even tweak it to cover the concerns in the lawsuit in the story then they’ll be all set. The fact that more than this guy has filed a complaint about their advertising and conditions says that T-Mobile should change it up a bit.

        • Acdc1a

          I have purchased many phones from T-Mobile. Never once have they tried to PUSH me into EIP.

        • SBacklin

          Well I guess I could say lucky you. Lol. It’s happened to me and I’ve seen it. Maybe I just got the shady ones. :-/

        • 21stNow

          I have experienced pushing to use the EIP and the outright assumption that I was buying on EIP where I had to stop the rep from printing an EIP agreement. The last rep was pushy on other things, as well.

          People have different experiences.

        • Andrew Someone

          yes, as Adc1a says you are not required to finance your phones at all, if you cannot afford the new phone but you dont want to finance we have $50 phone….otherwise you finance and agree to our terms.

        • SBacklin

          No you’re not required to but, as I mentioned in another post. The point here is being missed entirely. T-Mobile ads clearly insinuate there are NO contracts when in fact there are, different kind and yes optional. Customers walk in as I have and reps automatically assume you’re doing EIP and push you to such and advertise that heavily. Hence the concern with the ads in the first place. Put that all together and you start running into problems. Should customers read and understand what they’re doing? Yes, absolutely, but, that doesn’t mean T-Mobile should stop doing questionable and I would even say shady advertising. I liken what they do and your defense of them as people who say doing bad things are ok just as long as the supposed victims can avoid it. That just isn’t right. Yes customer should be savvy but, that doesn’t give free pass for a company to do bad things.

        • Andrew Someone

          Its a contract for the phones not for the service it clearly states no service contracts. You wouldn’t sign for a house loan or a car loan without knowing all the details why do people do this for their wireless carriers

        • SBacklin

          True but it’s still misleading. It’s word games because the end result is the same if you have an EIP. My point I keep trying to make here is that if they just stop the damn no contract advertising aspect. Things will be fine.

        • AnthonyReyes

          If the guy wins this case I see them changing it to add interest

  • ROD

    Yeah the service agreement is separate from the EIP agreement. TMO makes it extremely clear that if you cancel wireless service, EIP balance becomes due immediately. He agreed to it, judge should toss this out quick.

    • RotaryP7

      This is true. There is no contract on the service but the EIP is separate.

    • Acdc1a

      The other side of that coin is service is required for an EIP contract.

    • Brian

      Making it clear, even extremely clear as you put it, does not change the ethical responsibility T-Mobile has to the customer. T-Mobile should accept the phones back if the service does not live up to the customers standard.

      • Andrew Singleton

        There are 30 days to fulfil your exact request. It’s called lifetime coverage guarantee and during the first 30 days, there is 0 risk for the customer except the initial inquiry on your credit.

  • snworf

    He’d rather be in a courtroom when reading stuff that he signed…

  • Troy

    It’s pretty straight forward in the EIP agreement. Took this from my agreement.

    Default: Except where prohibited by law, if you commit any substantial default under this contract, we may declare the remaining unpaid balance of the contract immediately due and payable. You agree to maintain a T-Mobile voice service plan for any device purchased under this contract and any termination of that voice service plan will be a substantial default under this contract and we may declare the remaining unpaid balance of the contract immediately due and payable.

  • Alex Zapata

    Ah yes, Florida, the most reasonable state.

    • Marcus

      That’s California, where you can sue fast food joints because you got fat. People don’t take responsibility for their actions, they sue. That’s what’s wrong with our country, countersuits are the way to go. Countersue anyone for sueing you for legal expenses, time missed for work, daycare for your children, gas and wear on you vehicle, etc… They will think twice about filing such a bs lawsuit, cause if they lose they lose big.

  • Marcus

    EIP agreement is optional, you could just pay for the phones outright if you don’t agree to the terms. I don’t see the problem here.

    • Marcus

      Or BYOP!!!

      • IamTwone

        But even if you BYOP they still require a credit check just for service or require a $300-$400 deposit. Or tell you to go prepaid why require a deposit of just service when your not financing anything just getting service for $50-$80 a month?

        • Andrew Someone

          dealing with accounts all day long you should see why , people are way behind on bills all over the board many many accounts closed because people are not paying the bills…

        • SparkyTheDog

          Because running credit still qualifies you for device financing as well as promotions in the future even if you’re bringing your own device now. The deposit has never been for the phone, even when there were two year contracts. It’s for the actual line of service.

  • Brandon Dean

    The EIP agreement is pretty obvious, even for a new customer buying a phone. Its literally plastered under the monthly price of every phone, that you will owe the remaining balance for the phone if you cancel service.

    • StevenM

      Yes, but that would require people being responsible for their obligations. That doesn’t exist anymore.

    • Brian

      It doesn’t mean it’s legal. I can have you sign a contract for something then say you violated the contract, charging you the balance. Even if it is in writing, and signed doesn’t mean it is fair to the consumer.

      Reading and understanding is different than getting a fair deal. You can read and understand and still get a bad deal.

      • Andrew Someone

        if you ask me, its all moot – he agreed to arbitration when he signed up for t-mobile service this lawsuit tech. should not go past the very first judge that looks at the case he should dismiss it to arbitration.

        • Brian

          Believe it or not, arbitration is not a fully binding solution and a court can over turn an arbitration even if both parties agree.

          Like I said earlier, just because a customer has signed does not mean they received a fair deal.

        • Andrew Someone

          Yeah but come on if any court goes for this they have lost their minds,(if its going to happen though it would be in florida!) it was not a requirement for him to have service for him to get the Fanciest new Iphones or to get under an EIP agreement he CHOSE to do that….and such he needs to pay it or let it hit his credit.

        • Brian

          I don’t know why Florida is looked at as the crazy state but when it comes to legal battles, Florida has had some great ones.

      • Elly Rivera

        I understand your point. But it doesn’t apply here. It is all Legal. Whenever a RSA prints this stuff out they explain in full detail what is the expectation. People willingly sign. This is more than fair. They are told that they would be charged in full if they leave. They could have easily gone to another carrier and had them buy them out.

        But they didn’t.

        • Brian

          Some of you are still not getting this. If you are not actually signing a document and some phone rep just marks that you said “yes” it is not the same as buying a car or starting a mortgage. Either way you can still sue the car financing company or bank that gave you the mortgage.

          As an example: Some years ago, I worked for a retailer that delivers merchandise for a small first payment and then expected monthly payments until the total cost of the merchandise and financing fee was paid off. Customer would sign and initial and we would sign and initial and it was all legal like. Much like what you are describing. Except, that pesky thing called the FCCPA. See the courts do not care about the corporate papers and signatures. They care about how the transaction was conduct and what makes both parties whole.

          T-Mobile is fine with payments when you have service, so a court will/may decide that payments should be expected without service. See how I put that? T-Mobile is fine with that but what about the customer. Shouldn’t they be able to hold T-Mobile to the same standards as other carriers? And what about the cost of doing business for T-Mobile? How much did T-Mobile pay for the phone and how much does it charge? There is more to this than;”… he signed so he’s responsible” stuff.

          If I was T-Mobile they should look into the selling of devices on payment plans with or without service. Who knows, they could spin it into another uncarrier thing.

    • AnthonyReyes

      If the judge feels the contract isn’t fair to both parties which at first when I saw this post I was like he has no case but the way he is wording makes a lot of sense from the consumers point of view as being not fair.

    • zOMGLOLROFLMAOz

      The problem isn’t the EIP, it’s how T-Mobile says they have no contracts when most people are probably entering into finance contracts. This would mostly impact people who switched from other carriers and had T-Mobile pay off their contract or device balance. Basically someone complained to an attorney and the attorney is hoping T-Mobile will reach a settlement so they can get ez money.

    • Bonedatt

      I don’t think they are disputing the amount owed. They just don’t agree that the amount owed should be payed immediately after cancellation. Their argument is probably that installment payments should still be spread out (over a 24 month period) or as initially stated when they purchased the device.

      • Brandon Dean

        But the language used in the EIP agreement makes it quite clear that you owe the full amount of you cancel. It would be one thing if the language was ambiguous, but it isnt.

  • Marcus

    Maybe they didn’t understand or read english and T-Mobile didn’t provide the terms and conditions in emoji’s.

    • HeatFan786

      Or Kimmy K photos.

  • Lukasz Balicki

    It does say if service is canceled, remaining balance of device is due…

  • Brian

    In Florida this suit may get somewhere. Loan and rental agreements do fall under the FCCPA. I have seen local courts rule against company’s with the same or similar wording (previous employer). The Act does not see the signed contract as adequate legal standing to violate the FCCPA and can find T-Mobile in violation. Buy here pay here car sales get hit by this a lot (I did not work for a BHPH). This could change the way carriers do their IB sales.

    • tony

      are they trying to get those iphones for free? it does say if you leave t mobile the remainign eip balance becomes due.

      • Brian

        I doubt he wants the phones for free. He wants to pay for the phones over the agreed upon EIP schedule, 24 months. That’s how I read it anyway.

    • Andrew Someone

      But when he agreed to t-mobile service he agreed all disputes would be handled via arbitration so this holds zero standing no matter the case

      • SBacklin

        Most likely. It would depend if Florida has laws preventing such things. I don’t live in Forida so I can’t say for sure on that.

  • Gaius_Baltar4

    A major distinction is that Tmobile doesn’t bill you out for the phone until the whole ACCOUNT is closed.

    Theoretically you could open 10 lines on Tmobile and finance 10 iPhones then cancel 9 of those 10 lines and still keep the payments going on the full 10 devices.

    • You don’t even need to open 10 lines, you can finance as many devices on EIP on a single line as your available EIP credit limit allows (I have a business account with a $5K EIP limit, I currently have simultaneous EIP payments for an Xperia Z3 and an iPhone 6 Plus on the same line – I could do as many as I want up to my available limit).

      • Gaius_Baltar4

        The point I was making is that if Tmobile really was trying to tie financing into a form of penalty they would make customers pay off their financing when cancelling lines on the account and that’s not the case at all

        • VN

          If it is not meant as a penalty, at least it looks like an incentive to not cancel your service.

          Why do people buy phones thru financing? One answer could be that they don’t have the money to pay in full.

        • Acdc1a

          Since phones start at $50, that’s a bad argument.

        • Andrew Someone

          Yes but everyone wants the new phones even when their budget does not allow for it, deal with that everyday.

        • Acdc1a

          Simple, have outside financing then…

  • Marcus

    Third party bank? Is it done differently in Florida? Mine reads more as a line of credit provided to T-Mobile customers by T-Mobile.

  • VN

    The problem is that T-Mobile promises NO CONTRACTS while there are contracts, not yearly service contracts as it was the norm before but a service contract where you can leave the provider whenever you want, which is not the issue here, and, if you buy a phone, a financing contract. So, there are contracts and it’s not just a payment plan.

    Yes, there are fine prints too.

    It may look like a frivolous lawsuit, but sometimes those are needed to help make things more transparent for other consumers.

    I would like real frivolous lawsuit against Walmart for not having the correct price on their items that you only know it costs more when you do a price check or at the cashier, and maybe you never even notice that you payed more. I’m not a Walmart regular, by the way.

    • Acdc1a

      They clearly state no service contracts…big difference.

      • VN

        They say that too, but in smaller print.

    • Andrew Someone

      Also they are not required to sign up for eip to have t-mobile service they can buy phones out right so it’s a contract they are agreeing too for the phones since they want the newest phones but don’t have the money to pay for it

  • AllergicToBS

    Wow..All of Sudden, almost everyone become a Lawyer!! ROFL

    • VN

      Well… the lawsuit has a good argument, I think.

      • Andrew Someone

        No argument, we read a script they must agree to that the phone will be due in full if you cancel your account, also when you start t-mobile service you agree to arbitration of disputes unless opted out and no one does

        • SBacklin

          I know they do but, not all of them do. I’ve recently came to T-Mobile and while I know how it all works and know what to expect, the rep did not read the script. Every time I go into their store, its borderline block party atmosphere.

        • Andrew Someone

          in the agreement you sign when you sign for EIP, also so – you must read things before you sign if you dont, not really t-mobiles fault, just saying.

        • SBacklin

          I’m not saying you’re wrong on that point but, don’t use the script as a thing when not all of your reps read it to the customer.

          I also want to be clear on something. I don’t think T-Mobile’s offers or deals are bad. The EIP deal and terms are a good one to me. However, as I tried to explain before, my issue is with the advertising. Its partially true and misleading. You can’t excuse it just because a customer should be savvy. Bad advertising and misleading advertising are still that regardless of customer intellectual prowess.

        • SparkyTheDog

          I get what you’re saying, and yes it should be something that is pressed into the customer’s brain, but the EIP agreement that a customer signs is not lengthy at all. Anyone can read it within 10 minutes.

          I don’t particularly enjoy when a customer reads the fine print because of time, but I appreciate more that you’re taking the time to know what you’re signing.

        • tigerstown

          It’s not T-Mobile fault at all. I agree with you 100%. This is why I buy my phone’s in full. If you can’t buy it you don’t need it.

        • keepitreal25

          It doesn’t have to be verbally spoken to you. You have the ability to read the agreement before putting the pen to paper. There’s no excuse for any sensible adult to finance something not read the fine print and get mad later and displace blame.

  • nomadik

    Soooo, you got 4 phones and thought they were free. Annnd you didn’t read that contract you signed that said $ for the phones is due if you cancel service. Thaaats amazing.

  • Juan Pablo Darquea

    Come on people if you buy a car like eip is the same as buying a phone or computer if is not pay in full steel from the company cause you steel onw the amount go to any company buy something with credit card and don’t pay your credit card they bill you out the hall amount same as t-mobile those type customers are not honest always something free if you were the owner from that company you would do the same thing 100% sure

  • mcvegan

    I wanted to buy an iPhone once but I didn’t have the full amount. so if I put a little down Tmobile will spread the rest out over time. that’s not a fking phoneline contract. I read the fine print I read if I cancelled service BEFORE I paid the device off I owed the unpaid amount. this lawsuit sounds stupid. no free devices

    • mcvegan

      I saved and bought a better, non-iPhone from Tmobile. I am still a customer

  • YABD

    Tmobile reinvented the contract.

    • Andrew Someone

      not really, you do not have to agree to pay for the phones on financing . you can buy one outright if you dont want to agree to the terms.

    • Chikka

      No that is not true. All carriers have the same thing ….no free phones if you cancel.

  • vinnyjr

    Dumbest lawsuit I’ve ever heard. People amaze me, want everything for nothing. What do they think the phone becomes free? T-Mobile should start saying no to more new buyers and then you will hear they are getting sued for unfair practice. Never been happier, constantly doing whatever they can to help whenever I call, my signal is very strong and speeds are fast as hell. Thank You T-Mobile, Thank You John Legere.

    • Acdc1a

      Not sure it’s the dumbest suit ever. I haven’t financed phones but if there is indeed no acceleration clause, well…again since I buy my phones outright it makes no difference to me.

      • Andrew Someone

        We read a script when you buy a phone if you cancel your account the phone will be due in full.

    • Andrew Someone

      Wish more customers were like you. Lol people get so mad about things and 98 percent of the problems are their own fault

      • Sometimes…

        Sometimes, yes, sometimes …it is the customer fault. However, I have experienced, as well as, observed sales folks giving erroneous information. At those times, per my contacting customer service, I request the call record be pulled and listened to for an objective perspective. Each time in fairness, T-mobile has decided in my favor, addressed and/or corrected the error.

  • Andrew Someone

    I work for t-mobile and yes we tell you when you order the phone that if you cancel your services the phones will be due in full and you must agree to that for us to ship you the phone also the t-mobile agreement states that all disputes will be settled in arbitration unless opted out fromfirst 14 days and no one does this t mobile is going to win by default I wish I was the csr he was dealing with before he left I would have reminded him of these things

    • HeatFan786

      Just because an arbitration clause exists doesn’t mean that people can get a court to say the clause court be unconscionable or one sided. I don’t think the arbitration process is going to fall under a category to render it moot, but attorneys can try. It’s not like the Real Media case out in the Pacific Northwest I believe. T-Mobile has to waste time and money because people can’t read or use common sense. Sucks the taxpayers have to foot bills too. Save the judicial economy for people who need it.

  • Jay Brackett

    Everyone tries to screw T-Mo,free phones and all. Get a life you idiot,pay for you phones,you loser.T-Mo is a great company,it’s people like you looking for free shit,LOSER<LOSER

    • Philip

      Are you talking about the lawyers?

  • stcall102

    That’s how every other carrier works. If you cancel service on Verizon, att, sprint the remaining balance on the phone stands. It states that on T-Mobile’s website. I don’t know why it’s a big deal. Every single carrier has the same policy unless you buy your phone outright for like 700 dollars

  • Steven

    So, he took out a loan from a bank, to finance phones over an installment plan? Thats like taking out a loan…. so you can take out another loan…. This guy sounds like he doesn’t understand money or finance. He didn’t need a bank loan. All he did was add a middle man, interest, and a payment. Not T-Mobile’s problem he’s borderline retarded.

  • John McMasters

    I guess he didn’t know about carrier freedom where T-Mobile will unlock his phones so that he can use them on another carrier while still paying his monthly installment plan with T-Mobile. Maybe it was a lack of communication on T-Mobile’s part when he canceled his service or the customer just being an A Hole.

    • SparkyTheDog

      It also depends on when all this happened, because that benefit was put into place long after the monthly installments started.

    • Tinger12

      And Tmobile instituted Carrier Freedom most likely knowing full well that a lawsuit like this would happen sooner or later.

  • User

    There nothing deceptive. He’s going to loose. It’s stated in the contract. That’s all that matters. When I ever I bought a phone, the sales person told me you have 2 weeks. Don’t you ever have to sign prior to the purchase that you agree to the terms and conditions ? I bought my phone through and financed to Apple so I can go wherever I want lol my reasoning for doing this is different. They completely screwed up an order I placed online. It was such a hassle to get it resolved. That part T-Mobile needs to get together

  • justin l

    So does this moron thinks that he can just keep the phone for free? Someone has to pay for those phones. If hes unhappy with the service, then finish paying for the phones and be done with it. Tmobile DOESNT have to finance peoples phones. ATT does the same thing, except when you cancel, you have to pay for the phones AND pay the early termination fee

  • Chikka

    The phones aren’t free. They is mentioned every where on the website.

  • Nearmsp

    Having been a T-mobile customer for over a decade, I know what the implications of cancelling service while having equipment installments mean. I think the key issue is that the loan installments and the length of the time over which payments can be made should be clearly mentioned by T-mobile. A statement that the loan installment facility is available only until the person is a T-mobile customer. In the event the person cancels service all of the payments will be payable immediately. Or they should go the route of credit companies and continue the payments. An option should be given for T-mobile to be able to take back the phone’s ownership.

    • SBacklin

      They do. It’s on the tags, on the website below the devices, etc.

  • keepitreal25

    I know people will say you work for the company, but I have to say this is a frivolous lawsuit as i remember reading the accelerated part of the terms and conditions aND it’s definitely in the paperwork you sign before leaving with your phone. Any carrier that does EIP works the same way. Don’t feel bad for the guy , if the service didnt work he should have canceled in the same time frame as everyone’s else.

    • SBacklin

      Even I have to agree. It took him all that time to see it wasn’t working??

  • Dylan Wentworth

    Whether the terms are spelled out clearly in the contract is on thing but you have ask yourself , if Tmo doesn’t make money on the financing, and uses the EIP contracts as a condition for receiving promotional discounts (such as the current bogo on the iPhones) then what other reason could there be if not just an attempt to lock people in with a contract?

    • deathdealer351

      Nothing is stopping you from signing up for eip for the promo, then paying off the phone in full a month later or whatever.

      • Dylan Wentworth

        And nothing is stopping you from signing a two year marriage with ATAT and then paying the ETF for a divorce a month later either.
        I’m just waiting for the day these companies stick an equitable relief clause in those contracts forcing customers to perform.

  • Bradley Karas

    Why am I not surprised this is happening in Florida!!! I live in Tampa but I’m not a native and after 3 years of living here I can say this is a beautiful state but its a cesspool for morons! This lawsuit will not go anywhere! I’ve been a customer now for 5 years after leaving AT&T and I’ve read the EIP agreement and it clearly lays out what happens if you cancel T-mobile service

    • Dylan Wentworth

      It’s all the non-natives coming in from up north.

      • Bradley Karas

        You a native?

      • Brian

        I agree.

    • Ricardo Lopez

      News flash. Most places are a cesspool of morons. Intelligence genes appear to be recessive.

      • Bradley Karas

        Wrong

  • SBacklin

    I’m gonna bring my comments back around here. Do I think this guy has a case? Nope. Not even close. Is T-Mobile’s offers and EIP deals bad? Nope. Should customers read what they sign? Of course. Do I like T-Mobile’s ads? Nope. It’s a fine line and playing on words when they know what the outcome would be. It would be easy for T-Mobile to quit using the no contract or no service contract ads then these discussions and debates wouldn’t happen. Alas, they still use them so here we are. That said, ads change from time to time so we’ll see how it all ends up playing out.

    That said, I hope the guy gets his *** handed to him.

  • Seems reasonable to pay for the phones when you leave. I would not even finance them but it’s basically interest free and close to the price if you bought them from the vendor.

    • Elly Rivera

      It’s actually cheaper. But you’re right.

      • When I bought my Nexus 5, I could have gotten it a for slightly less through Google but it was easier to buy through T-Mobile.

  • Bradley Karas

    I’d love to argue with you…but I can’t cause you’re right. I myself have a college degree and a job…but I’m the minority in FL LOL

    • Christopher Olson

      We can’t forget this is also the state that made the 2000 presidential election famous for not knowing how to punch a simple card. I’m also a native but hesitant to admit that.

      • Bradley Karas

        Or driving down the expressway going the wrong way

    • riverhorse

      If it means anything, the litigant is from Bangladesh.
      Up until 60 years ago most of Florida was redneckish, with the Southern tip attracting moneyed Yankees- both Wasp & Jew…while Bogey and Bacall + their fans cavorted in the Keys.
      As successive waves of Caribbean and Latin American immigrant refugees have arrived, the moneyed have fled more and more northward towards Central Florida… the ‘necks getting squeezed further north.
      Leading us into today: South Florida is the Panama/Switzerland + Gold Coast to all countries south of the Rio Grande. And the Keys are instead the hangout of Rock Hudson fans.

  • taxandspend

    Lawyers looking to make some money.

  • Matt

    The no contract marketing isn’t really deceptive but maybe disingenuous?

    • Elly Rivera

      Not even that. It’s very simple.

      • VN

        The ads say NO CONTRACTS with big letters. A lie is a lie.

        • Elly Rivera

          Yeah. There isn’t a contract. With the service.

          It’s very basic stuff. If you go and they run your credit and you qualify for X amount and then use it. That means you are now in debt for whatever you purchased.

          No Interest. No Finance charges.

          When you go in and finance a phone. Of course there is a contract. There is no foul play here.

          You should always ask, “how does this work”? If you don’t then who knows how in the world you got the credit to get the phones in the first place.

          You’re even allowed to use your phone at another carrier once paid off. This is ridiculous and these people need to be held accountable. I can understand that it might be too much to pay at the moment, but that’s what they agreed to. Why would they leave I’m the first place and to what company. Every MAJOR carrier prettyuch buys out your Loans.

        • VN

          Yes, you should do this and you should that. But don’t lie to people. I know, that’s how business is done this days… it’s all about the fine print. Let’s see what the court decides.

  • Christopher Olson

    They’ve tried this battle already multiple times to hurt their momentum in the market. Just because there’s a different set of laws in the state doesn’t mean they have a better chance at winning. Even if a jury ruled in their favor, T-Mobile would just take it to a superior court and overrule it.

    • tmobile guy

      amen. nothing but a ploy from the competition to tarnish t-mobiles reputation

  • I’m Friend of a Friend

    This will be thrown out of court. Like someone say this just some lawyers looking to cash in.

    • Brian

      It’s not always about lawyers. Yes someone has to be paid to perform a service, unless the person bringing the lawsuit is the lawyer themselves. Most lawsuits are actually brought by law offices without a victim. Because laws are formed through precedence. Politicians bring lawsuits against state statutes to verify the legality of the law. That’s why the Supreme Court rulings are so important.

  • John

    It is a no contract plan! What do you expect? Do you expect to get four iphones for just two months payment? You are not contracted to T-Mobile Service. If you have own your phone, and want to leave T-Mobile, you can leave. They don’t send you a bill! However, if you get a phone with installment plan, and leave… man you have to pay for what you financed! You think you are the only smart person in the world! Why don’t you try this? Get BB credit card, finance your phone, and don’t pay your balance! Then see what happens to your Credit?

    • Clifton K. Morris

      That would make sense if there was a third party involved. However when you go to a T-Mobile store, you talk to a T-Mobile employee (or authorized retailer) which T-Mobile approves to perform business on behalf of the company.

      If you go to a dealership and the sign says “Free car” but no one tells you to bring in a trade or customer-provided financing, the dealership would have to take down the sign. It’s not a valid claim the company can tender.

      The way T-Mobile will likely position their court argument is that the company itself isn’t responsible for the debt; shift blame to the third-party financier. But the bank who bought the debt likely doesn’t do one-on-one store-level training to ensure their interest in buying the debt contract is covered.

      • Elly Rivera

        They aren’t advertising “Free Phone”. When you go and get a service agreement and a phone from them they specifically explain that you are not bound to the service but if you decide to leave then the remaining balance of the phones is due. People need to Stop borrowing money in general. Debt can be a good thing and a bad thing. I’m this case it was bad for the consumer because they didn’t understand their own financials and/or didn’t understand how a line of credit works. Which by the way is very basic stuff.

        • Clifton K. Morris

          However, when the agreement for the “No Contract” (as advertised) service is broken, the debt is cured through debt acceleration. That’s what is in the complaint.

          People get confused all the time. I recently watched “The Big Short” on NetFlix. I’m old fashioned and like great quality movies, you should rent it too; but it’s only available on Netflix DVD by mail. (Not BingeOn).

          That movie is based on the financial crisis. In the film, a strip club dancer owned 5 homes in Florida.

          The point is you can’t personally teach everyone right and wrong. But the T-Mobile ads are negligent at best.

        • Fabian Cortez

          You’re still missing the underlying and important part of this all: the device financing contract that the plaintiff signed willingly!

        • Elly Rivera

          It’s pretty simple actually. The Service Agreement and the Loan Agreement are two totally different things. That is why they are printed out separate.

          If you walk in, ask for service and I give it to you. Then you decide to leave, you would not be charged anything unless you had a bill due.

          But if you ask to finance a phone then decide to leave and return it after 14 days, even though they specifically told you that you can only return it within 14 days, then yeah the total amount would be due.

          Whatever carrier they went with should have bought those phones from them and paid off their debt, but I’m pretty sure they either wanted to keep them or the couldn’t trade them in because they broke them.

  • Clifton K. Morris

    Sure, this sounds like a ridiculous lawsuit to people who know this industry.

    However, in courts, the typical measure for fraud and “Truth In Advertising Law” is if the marketing does what is advertised. Often a standard measure used in Consumer Protection is to show the ad to people with a 6-to-8 grade education, then ask a potential customer what is being advertised and sold– how it works.

    “No contract” has a very specific legal meaning when brought in front of a court. T-Mobile’s “No Contract” plan has a very different meaning when also compared to other “No Contract” rate plans offered by other companies like SimpleMobile, Cricket, or even T-Mobile’s wholly-owned MetroPCS subsidiary.

    If payments are accelerated when a requisite requirement for service isn’t met, that *is* a contractual obligation that needs to be maintained. As far as I know, T-Mobile doesn’t accept used equipment back to satisfy the debt obligation either. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… It’s quackery! That said however, T-Mobile has always been the duckbill platypus of the wireless industry.

    Likely the courts will reference the same court prescedent set by Bally’s Gym and Health Club.

    • Fabian Cortez

      Nope.

      The courts are there to enforce a legal contract. The contract is clear and was signed by the plaintiff.

      There is no service contract and no device financing contract is required to get service. The plaintiff could have purchased the devices outright or brought his own.

      With you being an ex-T-Mobile employee, you should have zero issue understanding these basic concepts.

  • Jay Brackett

    no,the idiot filing the suit

  • kev2684

    Did he expect to walk away with his iPhones? What an idiot this is why they make fun of us Floridians

  • GTFOH YA money Grubber! PAY WHAT YOU OWE!

    • Clifton K. Morris

      That’s funny! ha ha.

      Things like that, remind me of the strong allegations I read online, of sales people at T-Mobile that were required to wear a dunce hat while in the office at work for not making quota.

      Perhaps there is more truth to those allegations if customers are not being properly qualified to the service or contract obligations are not being communicated to hit quota.

      • Fabian Cortez

        No.

      • tmoguy

        the dunce cap was in customer care i believe, which is different. care centers usually have very stressful metrics they hold the employees to. i dont agree with the dunce cap, but i can tell you as a sales rep who has worked in muultiple markets, this never happens.

  • The “No Contract” is in reference to the service. I think every use of credit implies a contract between the borrower and the lender. If you don’t want to be contractually obligated to pay your debt, then don’t borrow the money to make your purchases. Having said that, I can sympathize with the complaint of accelerated charges. I can’t imagine how I would feel if I financed $2K for a multimedia setup only to have Chase tell me two months later that I owe them $1800 immediately. However, if such a practice is in the fine print and I neglected to understand the terms of the agreement, then I would be at fault.

    • Clifton K. Morris

      T-Mobile shifted subsidization to third party banks whom have access to the commercial paper markets.

      The only way I can see a bank or financial company taking on the subsidy debt is if T-Mobile offered 3 or 4 different “Coverage Enhancement Devices”.

      Problem with this is that after the 2nd or 3rd coverage enhancement device, a customer is probably very fed up with the coverage and the normal return policy has lapsed.

      • If they are subsidizing through 3rd party banks, then there must be an incentive built in somewhere for the banks since there is no interest charged. Clearly, they’re not motivated to lend us money through any altruistic sentiment. I’m betting that T-Mobile pays the bank a small percentage of the service plan in exchange for offering interest free financing. Just empty speculation on my part, but I know that banks have to make money somewhere along the line and will not lend interest free money out of good will. If this is true, it makes sense why a customer would owe all of their debt upon service termination, for there is no longer a profit to be made and it ties up available credit that could be issued to some other customers.

        • VN

          The solution could be to charge interests if you cancel your service then, and not force people to pay a large amount of money they most likely don’t have, because if they did they probably would’ve paid the phones in full.

        • Elly Rivera

          That wouldn’t help them out. The company would take pretty big losses. They can’t resell the phones as new so if course the people would have to pay for the debt they signed up for. Don’t get credit if you can’t pay it off. Simple as that.

        • Seems reasonable.

  • M-E

    First of all to be clear: I do think that it is fair that if you cancel the service you should pay for your devices and I don’t agree with the spirit of this lawsuit.

    That being said in my opinion they do have merit as per the letter of the law. As part of the EIP contract they make you sign T-Mobile uses below language:

    “Default: Except where prohibited by law, if you commit any substantial default under this contract, we may declare the remaining unpaid balance of the contract immediately due and payable. You agree to maintain a T-Mobile voice service plan for any device purchased under this contract and any termination of that voice service plan will be a substantial default under this contract and we may declare the remaining unpaid balance of the contract immediately due and payable.”

    The second sentence of this clause can be interpreted as a service contract, as it bounds the terms of the EIP to an agreement of maintaining the said service plan, and then uses the “default” clause to trigger the accelerated payment option if the service plan is canceled.

    Keeping this in mind the issue here is not that the amount due is owed, when the service is canceled, but the fact that clause constitutes a “service contract”, while they market “no service contracts”.

    In my opinion the lawyers of T-Mobile could have come up with better language, or even better separate the EIP clauses from the service all together, and keep billing the EIP payments to the customer as per original schedule even after they cancel the service contract. Furthermore they issue these equipment with carrier locks, so if you want to move to a different carrier they could say that the full amount becomes immediately due and payable before the carrier lock is released for device portability.

  • blake

    If you didn’t have to pay for your devices you could basically walk in get service and get a couple of phones. Then a week later cancel and sell those phones for 2500? Dude, it’s business, without paying for those phones there losing 2500$ and mind you if it’s within 30 days and you decide to cancel because of bad service you can return the phones as well and get reimbursed for the bad service. Smh

  • Elly Rivera

    It’s literally like 4 pages or so. A car loan is way more.

    People are ridiculous honestly.

    People are too lazy to read. They read it to them because if they don’t they would never read it. Ha-ha

  • Tinger12

    Seems most are missing the point of his lawsuit. He did not state he wanted the phones for free even after canceling Tmobile service. What he is saying is that the phone financing IS tied to a service. Therefore the service would imply a contract due to the financing of the phone. If the service was completely separate from the phone financing contract, then a customer could cancel service and still keep payments for the phone payment contract. The way Tmobile has things set is tying the phone financing to the service. This is exactly how IBM did business for decades and were forced to end the practice. Tying a service to a hardware or other service in certain situations was not allowed. Tmobile is playing a semantics game and is potentially doing the same. It is not about paying for the hardware under a finance contract, but not having the service and that finance contract transparent of each other to be considered separate transaction on their own. And yes it is a completely different transaction if a customer buys a device in full or brings their own device. —- Note the quote about accelerated payments (paragraph two of the article). That is the key to the lawsuit.

  • Mike

    This whole thing is crazy. There are no contracts – leave when you wish. Buy equipment and it has to be paid off. Everyone understands this. It’s in the paper work you sign when you take out the loan. The crazy high price of phones almost requires everyone to finance a smart phone. Maybe TMO should do what dentists do. Apply for credit through a third party who then owns the debt. Dentist subsides the interest for 18-24 months. If the Loan is not paid in full by the 18-24 months all the interest during the subsides period is added and interest at a crazy rate applied till paid.

    • Adam

      You said, “has to be paid off”. In a business transaction, when someone ‘has’ to do something, the word for this ‘has’ is ‘contract’.

      • Andrew Singleton

        all transactions inthe entire world are contracts. the only thing required for a contract is mutual agreement and consideration. if you thought tmobile was letting you have an iphone out of the goodness of their hearts, it sounds like a mental incapacity rather than deception.

        • Adam

          Which is why T-Mobile should stop saying they do not have contracts or that they do not subsidize handsets.

        • Bradley Karas

          They don’t subsidize handsets! There is no contract for service…you need to buy a phone to use the service! It’s that simple! They offer you an option to finance a phone if you don’t have the money to buy one outright! They offer very cheap preowned and off brand options if you can’t afford to buy a phone…case closed!

        • Adam

          Completely false. Just compare the price on a financed iPhone with or without service. With service is much cheaper. Also, if T-Mobile was actually making a profit on the phone financing alone, they would allow people to continue when service is canceled, because it would be profitable. The whole reason T-Mobile is asking for the phone to be paid in full is because the service is no longer subsidizing the phone.

        • Bradley Karas

          It’s the same price on Apple’s website that it is at T-Mobile….same with Samsung. You’re dumb

        • Adam

          From Apple instance credit: “The purchase APR will be 14.24%, 20.24% or 27.24% variable, based on your creditworthiness.” Apple also has the “iPhone Upgrade Program”, but this program requires service. I think you are getting the two programs confused.

        • Brandon Cruz

          I think by “same price”, he means same total cost as if you bought the device outright. There’s interest if you finance outside of T-Mobile, though that’s hardly T-Mobile’s fault. It’s basically the same as using a credit card with a 0% APR (promotion value usually) vs a card with 25% APR. In this case, the cost of the phone doesn’t change, but the interest rate the user is charged does.

          Completely based on the user and what he/she chooses to pay for a device and not really about financing it with/without service as a user could simply open a new credit card and get that 0% promotional APR and pay it off before the standard purchase APR sets in.

      • Clifton K. Morris

        Well, facts are facts. An international telecommunications company like DT and T-Mobile has resources to do the right thing; including in advertisements.

        This is a company traded on the NASDAQ and its parent is also publicly traded as well.

        Either the ads are wrong, or T-Mobile didn’t want to return the equipment and nullify the equipment purchase plan obligation.

        It seems by actions of the company, if customers need any additional clarification on their handset obligations, they not need call customer service; call 425-378-4000 and ask for the legal division. Hopefully they are not playing a drinking game or testing how strong the “Atomic Fizz” cocktail should be.

        • tmobile guy

          all of the advertisements disclose the fact that the phones have to be paid off, because tmobile was forced to change the language being used a couple years ago in a similar situation. now EVERYTHING we have says remaining balance of device becomes due upon service cancellation

      • tmobile guy

        all they say is no annual service contracts. it says all over the marketing material that the remaining balance becomes due if services are terminated. it also says it in the EIP paperwork that you agree to when using t-mobiles financing

  • Andrew Singleton

    this is nuts. the law doesnt protect dumb people from being dumb. several signatures are required to initiate a financing agreement for your $650 iPhone. Move on.

    • Andrew Singleton

      let me add – t-mobile goes A STEP FURTHER where if you cancel your service within 30 days, you are REFUNDED the service amount for your time used and they will let you CONTINUE TO FINANCE THE DEVICE, WHILE INSURING IT, even without service, for 2 years. this is the fairest company in wireless.

      • Clifton K. Morris

        How does this work when a customer requests a “Coverage Enhancement” Device?

        Do they restart the 30-day trial clock; when the network is a lemon?

        Didn’t think so.

        • SkinsFan17

          What does the rest of the industry do in these circumstances? T-Mobile has by far the most customer-oriented policies they can while still protecting their financial interests.

        • Clifton K. Morris

          Well, in Amerikka, anyone can file a complaint. This one just happens to be a class-action lawsuit.

          I applaud Moshi Farhi and his counsel. Every time I see an ad flashing on TV that says “NO CONTRACT” like it was from a teenager that just learned how to use Photoshop or Adobe Premier, at Seattle Institute of Art…. I have to pinch myself HARD to pay the bill. I always knew the family plan I have will be sent to collections of I stopped paying.

          Now I know what that “No Contract” plan is worth. Moshi’s formal documents state that i did stop paying, it’s a $2,600 ding on the credit score.

        • Clifton K. Morris

          Policies are worthless if rate plans change, customers are sent to collection agencies for no-contract rate plans.

          Likely, this poor SOB traded in each of his T-Mobile Iphones for a $200 credit. Now, an agent acting on T-Mobile’s behalf is saying they owe $2,600?

          Bah. That’s a problem.

        • Barnassey

          30 days? on t-mobile you have 14 days from the moment you order your device, so if you don’t get your device for 5 days you have 9 days left.

    • Barnassey

      You know another name for a contract is an agreement right?

      • Andrew Singleton

        Yes, every business transaction is a contract. I bought gum yesterday. Contract.

      • Andrew Singleton

        i’ll reiterate – if you think “no contracts” really mean that there are no business contracts involved in your cellphone service, you are a bottom-of-the-barrel idiot. you can get postpaid phone service at t-mobile – the highest quality service available – with no service term contract, and cancel at any time with no fees or hidden charges. THAT is no contracts. n

  • Ron Burgundy

    What an ass…Moshe Farhi should go back to Israel and leave us alone. We love our Tmobile service and don’t want our corporate to be bogged down with frivolous law suites brought by money hungry you know whos.

    • God

      Jesus Christ!

  • SkinsFan17

    How is a company supposed to design a great system that works for 95% of the population with common sense and simultaneously a different system for the remaining 5% morons who think they shouldn’t be responsible for anything they sign or do? Stop enabling these people’s stupidity.

  • YABD

    Tmobile didn’t eliminate contracts, they just reinvented them. Let’s be real.

    • VN

      Yet they say NO CONTRACTS in BIG LETTERS.

      They don’t say NO SERVICE CONTRACTS or NO YEARLY CONTRACTS.

      And yes, they have the fine print too, but who’s gonna reads those when they’re not signing a CONTRACT.

      But, like you said, there are CONTRACTS.

      • Adam

        I don’t really care if the word service is in there or not. It IS still a service contract. Customers are penalized when they cancel service. They lose their money’s time value.

      • Common Sense

        There NO CONTRACT! T-mobile is doing you a favor and will finance you phone if you don’t have one. You choosing finance a phone is different than servicer contract. And we all know when you finance something there obligation. Nobody is making these people finance a phone and there is option to bring your own device. People are just looking for loop holes to file suit and this will be thrown out!

  • tmobile guy

    agreed with the other posters. you’re missing the point. no annual service contracts, EIP financing is completely optional. also, lets not forget that all of the other carriers have adopted nearly identical practices and also market them as no contract plans. singling tmobile out is ridiculous and seems like the big dogs are ‘reaching’ for ammunition to throw at tmobile in order to make it look bad

    • Clifton K. Morris

      Who is the “big dog”?

      AT&T (who owns Cricket) is fairly big. Last I researched figures, in SEC reports, they invest about $25/customer/month into a pool they call OpEX.

      They have the right to market a few things-
      1. Unlimited Service
      2. No Contract rates
      3. Data service with no caps

      And they can deliver on those marketing promises.

      T-Mobile isn’t investing that kind of money. In fact, they rolled their primary assets (towers, structures and real estate) over to a company called Crown Castle for a $5B loan. There’s also an option for CCI to own all those assets in 25 years. That’s when they pulled the trigger themselves.

      Once CCI gets their house in-line, (and it may take a few re-orgs) it’s anyone’s guess who will own network assets the company once said is “Data Strong”.

  • Matthew Lwin

    There are no contracts to use T-Mobile service. You can cancel whenever you want. But financing a phone from them is not a contract to use their service. It’s a contract for a loan.

    • Adam

      Then, why does the contract require service if it is not a service contract?

      • Matthew Lwin

        It’s a choice my brother. That’s the difference! You don’t have to buy their phones. You can byod, use their sim card, abuse their network, simply stop paying if you don’t wanna use their service anymore. But you use their phone, they own you! you do as they say!

      • dtam

        if you try to get a loan from a credit union, they may require you have a bank account from them. same thing. maybe tmobile should just allow people to finance their phones but at credit card interest rates

        • Adam

          This is what Apple is doing with their no service financing. I think if non-payment results in an IME block, people would be likely to pay their bill. This would result in an interest rate much lower than a credit card, where the bank has almost no leverage to force customers to pay.

  • 21stNow

    Carriers should stop financing the cost of mobile phones. Let customers buy phones the way that they buy televisions. Either pay cash or the customer has to arrange his own financing (credit cards or whatever). That not only stops lawsuits, it can allow the carrier to focus more on the business of being a service provider, not an equipment provider that facilitates financing agreements.

    • tehboogieman

      I’m pretty sure that you stores like Best Buy sells TVs the same exact way.

  • Hance Hnn

    There is No Contract for Service. If you take an $900 IPhone and after paying once $50 for the service (wich you can cancel), you still have to pay for the IPhone. The actual “Service” has No Contract. You can cancel the “Service” anytime. But the phone (device) is priced separately from the monthly service. It’s priced separately so you can pay next day or in a year or two. I think T-mobile is clear about that. If you cancel your service you still owe for for the unpaid device.
    Unless you want to screw T-mobile, which is another story.

    • Adam

      It is not priced separately. Simply try financing an iPhone without service, you will find it is more expensive. Similarly, try ending your service while paying off an iPhone, you will find your payments go up. You are penalized for canceling your service by signing the contract.

      • Hance Hnn

        I was talking about installment plan. When you pay off your phone price in 24 even payments. You can pay as fast as you want or in 24 month. No extra charge. In the end it’s going to be full retail price. But if you cancel your service the remaining balance is still on you. I’ve done that and didn’t pay extra. Also maybe it depends whom you’re talking to, in some stores they try to hook you up with some old contracts. I can’t say they do it on purpose, but I had that experience.

        • Adam

          There is an extra charge when you pay faster. That charge is time. Think of it this way, if you had money in the bank earning interest. If you pay your EIP out of that bank account, paying faster would result in less money at the end of two years than paying slower.

          T-Mobile is paying this time value of money out your service profits. To estimate how much this time value is worth per payment, compare payment size of a 24 month plans with and without service. When you compare a 24 month plan to a one month plan, you need to factor in time.

    • Common Sense

      AGREED. Simply solution bring your own device and don’t finance one. This very simple and people are looking for loop holes in the wording to file suit.

  • maanshu

    There is no such thing as free lunch. Please go and study economics.

    • Adam

      What people are asking for is an honest cook for their lunch.

    • Matthew Lwin

      Your argument is invalid! A woman sued McDonald’s for spilling hot coffee on herself AND WON!!! FREE LUNCH FOR HER FOR LIFE!!!

  • Clifton K. Morris

    This should have been filed as a Federal Court Case; and the Consumer Financial Services Bureau should have reviewed it.

    Ideally, US Federal Trade Commission should have reviewed it. However, it seems FTC’s balls are kinda tiny, maybe even painted pink.

    According to New Mexico Secretaty of State’s Office, (Where T-Mobile is actually chartered as a business– protip- it’s in New Mexico, not Washington State) David Miller must be unleashing some great Atomic Fizz mixed cocktails between writing contracts that don’t actually appear to be contracts.

  • VN

    Can we agree on this, I need to go eat.

    1. People should know better. they should read the fine print like a nerd even if they’re lead to believe it is not a CONTRACT.

    2. Companies shouldn’t lie or mislead people with false claims of NO CONTRACTS.

    3. I know, all that is utopic and I have already eaten. Thank you very much. :)

    • Silvio Rojas

      Its not a contract, it is a terms of service, or he signed an equipment installment plan. If he had bought the phones full price or bright his own phones, he could just cancel the service.

      • Joe

        It’s a month to month contract, TOS = month to month contract.

      • VN

        But a terms of service is a contract and the EIP is another contract. And that’s how it should be.

        T-Mobile is asking for problems when they say NO CONTRACTS.

        And just to be clear, I don’t like yearly contracts as it was the norm before, it’s one of the reasons I’m with T-Mobile.

    • I agree, you should have eaten instead of posting this. j/k! :-P

    • Barnassey

      Not everyone has the capability of rational thought necessary to understand the legal terms in a contract for a no-interest loan.

  • Jason Caprio

    This lawsuit will never stick. It says right on the fine print under the phone section of T-Mobile’s website: Equipment Installment Plan: Availability and amount of EIP financing subject to credit approval. Down payment and unfinanced portion required at purchase. Balance paid in monthly installments. Must remain on qualifying service in good standing for duration of EIP agreement. If you cancel wireless service, remaining balance on phone becomes due.

    If you buy a phone outright or bring your own device, you can cancel the service whenever you want. People are so stupid!

    They can pay off those phones and bring them to another provider unlocked!

  • Jared

    The paperwork he signed when taking delivery of his four financed phones states that the remaining balance will be due if he leaves T-Mobile; his attorney must be starving for work.

    • Jeff

      But that paperwork he signed is not a contract, because T-Mobile doesn’t do contracts. Maybe he signed a receipt or something.

      • Silvio Rojas

        Its most likely just signing a terms of service.

        • Jeff

          Can’t be that because that would be contract. I’m thinking it was either a receipt or an autograph.

      • Joe

        Terms of service is technically a contract itself since it’s a legal binding agreement of service between you and T-Mobile

      • Rob

        It’s not a contract, it’s a loan agreement. It is legally binding and this lawsuit is retarded.

        • Jeff

          I was not sure what agreement was so I went to Wiktionary…

          (uncountable, law)

          A legally binding contract enforceable in a court of law.

          Agreement is a contract, eww! Can’t be that.

        • Rob

          Of course a loan gives you a contract but the service itself doesn’t require you to take out that loan in the first place. You can bring your own phone or you can buy your phone outright and either use your own credit line to finance it or your bank account. T-Mobile is providing a 24 month financing options at 0% interest as an OPTIONAL value add. Once you have signed that piece of paper for your EIP, you have added a contract of your own volition. Since it is not a requirement to have service, this lawsuit has no merit and even if it proceeds in Florida, it will get tossed before it gets close to the Supreme Court.

        • Adam

          Your understanding of the complaint is reversed. They are not complaining that purchasing a phone is a requirement to have service. The complaint is that having service is a requirement to purchasing a phone.

        • Rob

          It doesn’t change matters at all. If people would learn to read before signing paperwork, we wouldn’t have so many problems. Of course T-Mobile isn’t going to take a loss because a customer wants to abuse their lower pricing for customers!

  • Capable Legal Team…

    One thing I do know, T-mobile has a very capable legal team for all this and that more…

  • HangmanSwingset

    Title should say “T-Mobile facing class action lawsuit in Florida because some guy can’t be bothered to read before he signs”

    • Rob

      If he was really that unhappy with the service he should have taken those phones to another carrier and had them pay off his EIP. This customer knew exactly what he was doing.

    • Jeff

      … a contract.”

      • “… a contract for a phone but not for his plan”. The plans are no-contract. The loan that he financed his phone on is different.

        • Adam

          Then why does T-Mobile charge an early termination fee when customers cancel service? This fee is in the form of device payment remaining.

        • There is no early termination fee. T-Mobile simply ceases being willing to offer a 0% interest rate on a loan for the phone as the borrowing party agreed to and signed to.

        • Adam

          There is a cost to 0% interest. Whoever pays that cost is paying a fee.

        • You’ve lost me. Please restate your counterpoint if you want a response – I don’t follow the logic. I agree that there’s a cost to providing a 0% loan but you’re not suggesting that the person buying the phone is providing T-Mobile a 0% interest loan are you? I don’t understand the argument you’re making.

        • Marcus

          The 0% financing option is a benefit provided to T-Mobile subscribers. If you are not a subscriber you don’t get the benefit. It’s not a loan, it is a line of credit for being a subscriber.

        • Sidebar: What makes a line-of-credit not a loan?

        • Marcus

          Line of credit is between two parties, loan involves a third party providing financial resources and taking the liability of said loan. Loan: you buy a house from a person using the banks money to pay that person, you now owe the bank. Line of credit: You buy a car from someone who is willing to let you make payments (notice they do not get their money at the time of transfer and the liability is on the seller).

        • Barnassey

          Again still a type of loan.

        • Adam

          While having phone service, T-Mobile bears the cost of the 0% financing. T-Mobile is willing to do this because they are making money on the service. When T-Mobile is no longer making money on the service, they transfer that cost to the consumer. At this point, the consumer must move money out of something potentially making are return. The consumer has now lost their potential return, which is the penalty for terminating service. For the poor, this cost would be greater, because they might need a payday loan to payoff their phone.

        • So what you just described is so incredibly different than a fee. That’s called the consequence of your actions. The actions that lead to this in what you described seem to be the following:
          1) Not understanding what your contract is for
          2) Not understanding the terms of your financing
          3) Buying something you cannot afford
          None of what you described can in the slightest way be called an early termination fee.

        • Adam

          I have an EIP. When I price switching carriers, I consider all the fees involved. One of those fees is the cost of forfeiting the 0% interest. This is not do to a lack of understand, or paying for something I cannot afford, but rather wanting to maximize my net worth.

        • I don’t buy it. If you want to maximize your net worth, you’re not going to take out a loan on a phone. The time you just spent micromanaging that part of your finances, even if you consider all gains of that 0% financing on a $200 phone (you are only financing a $200 phone, right? Because a $700 phone certainly isn’t a strategy to “maximize your net worth”) to you, you would have certainly been much better off putting that time to a more profitable endeavor.
          But that argument aside, that was absolutely not the situation you described that I was responding to. Which was also not the early termination fee that you had described prior to that. There is no cohesion to your counterpoints here – sorry.

        • Adam

          The main reason I did EIP was that it is the only way to get the buy 2 iPhones rebate. Once I realized this, I decided to spend my time thinking what that service means. Otherwise, I agree the hassle of dealing with EIP not worth 0%.

          The thing common to people on EIP is the requirement to stay on service to bear the cost of losing 0% interest as a penalty.

        • I can be in perfect agreement with everything here. Still doesn’t mean there’s a contract on the plan nor an early termination fee. Just means the financing agreement is honored in the terms that both parties optionally agreed to in the beginning under no force or coercion.
          Not to be confused with how carriers (cough Verizon cough) used to do it: Buy a phone full-price? Here, let me renew your 2yr agreement for you and lie to you about it so I get some more commission. (Happened to me no less than FOUR times!)

        • MadJoe

          You don’t forfeit your 0% interest, that would mean you had to pay any back interest that had accrued that T-Mobile was deferring plus any that might continue to accrue as the debt remained unsatisfied. Since T-Mobile doesn’t charge any interest on these loans, there’s no interest to defer and therefore no interest rate to forfeit. You cancel service, T-Mobile takes your remaining balance on your EIP and places it due immediately as stated in the contract for the EIP which is separate from your line-of-service agreement. They don’t tack on ghost interest, or start charging interest when you do this, they just ask for their money. You’re being purposely obtuse here and don’t understand how loans and lines of credit work apparently.

        • Adam

          I am specifically referring to the 0% interest between termination and previously schedule end of EIP.

        • MadJoe

          Yes you are, and you’re still not forfeiting anything except your ACCESS to the 0% EIP option. Stop being dense. T-Mobile states very specifically in the EIP agreement, which is entirely voluntary and not necessary in order to sign up for a line of service (key point here), that any balance remaining on your EIP becomes due upon cancelling service. The problem with your weak argument is that YOU DON’T HAVE TO SIGN UP FOR THE EIP IN ORDER TO START A LINE OF SERVICE! This is called a “choice”, when you make that choice, you abide by the terms of said choice. You don’t complain because T-Mobile was up front in telling you they weren’t willing to extend you that courtesy of 0% financing unless you remain a customer of theirs.

        • Adam

          The complaint is not about a a breach of contract, it is about false advertising. Your “key point” is not relevant, because no one is saying the contract requirements are missing from the contract, what they are saying is the wording in the contract conflicts with the wording in advertisements.

          Your requirement complaint understanding is reversed. No one is complaining that buying a phone is required for service. People are complaining that service is a requirement to buying a phone. This is the same complaint people have been having with cell phone companies for years, there is a service time requirement in the contract.

          It sounds like you are unfamiliar with the meaning of the word ‘courtesy’. The c word you are looking for is contract.

        • MadJoe

          The complaint is that T-Mobile is not really offering contract-free service because they have the audacity to expect money they lend to be paid back even though to get the service you don’t have to borrow the money. That’s the absurdity of this lawsuit. Service is contract-free. If you want to borrow money to finance your device purchase, they expect you to pay that back and therefore ask you to sign a contract. However, for your argument to hold water, that EIP contract would need to be necessary in order to secure a line of service with T-Mobile. It is not.

        • Adam

          Please reread my post. Your interpretation is the exact opposite of what it states.

        • Chilehead

          I’ll say this again. We all realize what T-Mobile’s “agreement” is. That doesn’t mean it’s not a contact. Please understand the issue.

        • MadJoe

          You obviously don’t since you can’t fathom how the EIP is not your wireless contract, but a financial agreement to pay back money borrowed in order to purchase an object you otherwise couldn’t have afforded. Your wireless service with T-Mobile doesn’t depend on that EIP contract, you having a phone you can’t otherwise afford does.

          TL;DR: T-Mobile has no contracts for wireless service, but they do offer a voluntary contract for borrowing money. Get it?

        • HangmanSwingset

          So you instantly don’t have to pay them for the phone they financed to you? You get the rest of it for free? That totally makes sense.

        • Adam

          No, T-Mobile should charge non-subsidized interest rates on phones, even to customers that have service. That way customer’s payments would not change when they cancel.

        • HangmanSwingset

          That’s not the point. The adverts refer to the fact that there is no contract on the plans. You know. On the service. This lawsuit has come up several times already. The “contract” they do offer is on the device. You don’t NEED to get a device through TMo. Therefore: The plans are without contract. As advertised. That doesn’t mean that T-Mobile has absolutely no contracts on anything at all, just that the plans don’t. Even the title of the article uses the word “plans”.

          If the device contract states that the EIP balance becomes due, it becomes due. He signed it. Again, the contract on the device does not have anything to do with the plan. The plan itself is free of contract.

        • Adam

          The relationship between the device and the plan is once you buy a device on EIP, you must stay on the plan or face penalty. Being penalized to leave a plan is the same thing people have been complaining about for years. I call this a plan contract, you are welcome to call it something else. This penalty to losing 0% financing.

        • HangmanSwingset

          You’re not facing a penalty. You’re paying what you owe. You’d have been paying that all off anyway.

        • “I call this a plan contract”
          However, the contract itself, you know, the thing both parties agreed to, doesn’t call this a plan contract. And that’s the important thing. People need to stop signing contracts they don’t understand.

        • SkinsFan17

          What would you recommend as an alternative? Just give people a $700 phone and unlock it for them?

        • Adam

          I would prefer is T-Mobile split the handset and service groups. If either group cannot survive on its own, it would be survival of the fittest at work.

        • If you would prefer this, and they certainly offer this type of experience to you, then why do you have an EIP? Again, I don’t buy your arguments anymore. You’re beginning to sound entitled instead of a voice of reason here.

        • MadJoe

          You don’t have to buy a phone you can’t afford outright, you know. You could buy one within your immediate budget and have absolutely no obligation to T-Mobile beyond your current month’s charges. Crazy, huh?

      • HangmanSwingset

        The service has no contracts. This part is true. Bring your own phone, you don’t sign a contract.
        However, people seem to think you get the device for free, then peace out of what you owe.

  • Mike

    Quick fix buy your phone outright or don’t buy a phone beyond your means financially. Also when you do EIP you agree to pay your phone remaining balance off.

    • Adam

      Alternative quick fix: pull ads that say no contract, stop subsidizing handsets with service.

      • VN

        What?! Stop or start subsidizing?

      • Rob

        Handsets aren’t being subsidized with service. When T-Mobile offers lower prices than manufacturers it is due to volume discounts they get from the manufacturer, NOT a subsidy. You have no contract for service with T-Mobile unless you agree to EIP separately. End of story. If they were offering subsidies you would be charged a penalty to make that up on top of your full EIP being immediately payable and that isn’t happening.

        • Jeff

          EIP is a contract too.

        • Rob

          EIP is a voluntary contract. You opt to have one, it isn’t something that is required to have service with T-Mobile. If you choose to finance your phone through T-Mobile, you are entering into a loan with excellent terms really. They finance the phone for you and you pay no interest on that loan. Why would T-Mobile continue a loan that is making them no money if you cancel your service? When you sign up for EIP, it is made very clear that you will be responsible for the full balance if you cancel your T-Mobile service and at that point you will have to find alternate financing or just pay the balance. It’s not like there aren’t offers all over the place to take your phone as a trade in and pay off your EIP anyway.

        • Jeff

          Two year contracts were voluntary too.

        • Rob

          Only to the extent that whether you paid full price for your phone or went into a contract, you were paying the same cost for your plan as everyone else. EIP basically got rid of everyone paying for everyone else’s subsidies and dramatically reduced the cost to everyone on their plans. The way it used to be everyone who had a plan paid the same price, subsidized or not. Now you pay for the plan only and you can add a phone if you choose. Tell me which was the better way…

        • Jeff

          I know all that, that’s why T-Mobile has the flexibility to offer many promotional plans, all I’m saying is call things by what they are… contracts.

        • Rob

          I guess credit card companies need to start calling their loans contracts too. You have a contractual obligation to repay a debt but credit card companies don’t call them contracts, they are called agreements which is what EIP is called. It’s the equipment installment plan agreement. They all call it that.

        • Adam

          Good analogy, because if a credit card company came out the a TV commercial that they don’t use contracts, the credit card company would be on the wrong side of a lawsuit.

        • Jeff

          If they came out saying they don’t do contracts or they don’t do agreements, both having the same meaning of course, they would be out of business.

        • Adam

          If the priced discount really had nothing to do with service, they would not make service a requirement. They would be selling phones to AT&T customers.

        • Rob

          T-Mobile chooses to pass off the value of their volume discount to their customers which they have every legal right to do. Big box retailers can do the same thing but they have zero incentive to do so since it would cut their margins and people will pay. By your logic, Costco and Sam’s Club are doing something shady as well since you are required to have a membership to get a portion of the discount they get for buying in volume. You’re arguing just to argue.

        • Adam

          You are correct in the similarity to Costco. The difference is that Costco is not advertising no beer subsidies and no contracts. I frequent Costco. If on the other hand, I only went to Costco once a year I would complain that it is a rip off and why should I be subsidizing the frequent shoppers. Just like I am complaining, why should I be subsidizing the EIP frequent users.

        • Rob

          That was a totally hypocritical statement you just made. You’re okay with it as long as it benefits you and not somebody else. I assume you must pay full price for your devices then. You’re not going to convince me or anyone else after you just said that you use Costco often enough to offset the membership cost but you’d complain if you didn’t. That’s one of the most asinine arguments I have seen on here in awhile.

      • Mike

        T-Mobile isn’t subsidizing phones you either lease or finance . If you lease or finance any product you’re still required to pay what’s owed or you will get get your account sent to collections or sometimes even sued. The solution is to buy whatever phone your finances can afford and stop crying saying it’s unfair when you can’t make payments.

        • Adam

          You must believe the T-Mobile marketing ads if you think there is no device subsidizing. Your post is proof that the T-Mobile marketing is misleading. Simply compare a 24 month payment plan for an iPhone with and without T-Mobile service and you will see there is clearly device subsidizing going on.

  • Irfan

    that is the problem in USA education system , T-Mobile is the company who sell Service , and with help of manufactures they help you to use that service on different devices , T-Mobile service is no contract but if you have device on EIP you are bound with Bank for 24 months agreement . simple .

    • Rob

      It’s not that cut and dry. There is no bank, financing is directly through T-Mobile. This changes the game somewhat since T-Mobile isn’t a finance company but seeing that it’s a 0% interest loan with clear terms, including the EIP being canceled and payment in full due when canceling service, the laws meant to protect consumers against shady payday loans and such would hopefully not apply.

  • MOe

    Simple fix. 1) Stop using the words “no contract” in the advertising. 2) offer financing of equipment separate from and independent of phone service. Think of Ford the car company and Ford Motor Credit Co the credit company of Ford Motors. GM did the same thing and became successful in financing things other than cars. 3) Give people the option to get a subsidized phones as part of a higher priced rate plan with a contract including the early termination fees.

  • Isaiah

    The problem is that T Mobile was acting like a loan company. If they are right about T Mobile not having a provision about the payments being accelerated or due immediately upon the T Mobile Account being canceled than T Mobile USA is going to be in trouble since they had no legal justification to make the loan due at cancellation due to it not being in the contract. It is deceptive of T Mobile to say that their is no contract since their EIP is basically an Early Termination Fee on steroids just they are not subsidizing the phone. I like what T Mobile is doing it looks like they are going to have to change the wording in their EIP agreement and Service agreement so they are not paying out any more lawsuits like this one.

    • Rob

      The EIP agreement clearly states that if you cancel your service with T-Mobile, the entire balance is due immediately. It’s on every sales tag in the store, it is all over the website, it is on the paperwork you sign at the store when you buy a phone on EIP, it is read on a recorded script when you order over the phone. T-Mobile could not make it any clearer.

      • Isaiah

        Good then this lawsuit will go nowhere then. Since I have not had T Mobile since 2014 I am glad they have it worded good.

        • Rob

          It’s Florida so it will unfortunately likely make it through circuit court but I seriously doubt it would go any further than that. If it does make it to the Supreme Court, we could be looking at a full return of two year contracts, forced subsidies on all customers driving plans back up, and everything that has changed in the world of wireless going back to the draconian era we just escaped from… I love how so many are up in arms about this without realizing the price all of us will pay if this hits the SCOTUS and they rule against T-mobile.

        • Isaiah

          Lets say in the unlikely event the lawsuit prevails. I see T Mobile making two separate companies. You will have T Mobile USA that sells phones and phone service. You will have T Mobile Financing that loans money for the phone with interest. So they can still make the payments even though service is canceled. That is more than likely what they will do in the unlikely event the lawsuit prevails.

        • Rob

          I can’t really see T-Mobile starting a finance division. It’s much easier said than done and would take a significant investment to get off the ground. T-mobile needs all the capital they can get in order to buy as much 600MHz spectrum as possible. I could see them partnering with a third party but that’s going to be messy at best.

        • Isaiah

          A third party financing company would be a cheaper solution. Not to mention it would allow customers to switch carriers while still being able to make their device payments.

        • Rob

          Yes but it would also void out any credit that existing customers qualify for. For example my account has been open for 12 years. I can have 5 lines with T-Mobile, all of them on EIP. Outsourcing to a third party would make all of that null and void and would mean I’d have to take a hard hit every time I upgrade. I’m not okay with that and many other customers would not be either. Then there’s the customer service nightmare to deal with as well as system integration costs for point of sale systems. It sounds like an outright recipe for disaster to me and it seems far more likely that all the carriers go back to subsidies after current payment plans ended which would destroy T-mobile and Sprint and would make Verizon and AT&T extremely happy.

        • Laura

          There is no interest on the TMO EIP plan a 3rd party would charge interest. Also under the new lease plan ( separate from the EIP) If you leave early you can continue the monthly payments. One other thing everyone has forgotten, even when there were contracts you had to pay the phones off AND pay up to $200 per line in early termination fees. Paying for the phone is not the new part! Not paying ETFs is the what changed…. Well that and phones went from a few hundred dollars to up to close to $1000 with the high end devices.

          Full disclosure I work for TMO and yes it is posted everywhere, it’s in the EIP agreement that the customer must sign to get the phone… If this dude is a lawyer he forgot to do his homework.

        • Byron Geils

          Cheaper than 0% APR?

          Businesses such as Apple and Best Buy that use third-party financial services all charge interest.

  • gmo8492

    I guess he should also sue car dealerships too since they make you pay the full term of your lease when you return the car early.

    • Isaiah

      The problem is T Mobile is acting like a bank. But their is no provision for them accelerating or making the payments due at cancellation instead of the 24 months of payments. If that is correct T Mobile is going to be in trouble.

    • Adam

      It is more like you have to pay your lease in full if you switch to an insurance company not giving the dealer a kickback.

  • CeeJay

    It seems to me that people seem to be really uneducated because if you actually read the agreement that you signed it states that you will have to pay the remaining balance even after canceling T-Mobile service but I guess people always want something for free I mean honestly you financed for iPhones what did you think

  • Mookie

    I have a have t-mobile, here is how it works. Your plan is non contract. If you want to leave there is no penalty. If you want to go on a payment plan for a phone that you cannot afford it is added on top of your bill.
    It is clearly marked in multiple places. The only way to miss it is to ignore what was told you or blindly go through the process and never read anything. It clearly stated on my end that termination of contract means whatever is owed is due immediately.

  • john

    it says on the eip contract ..termination of tmobile services will result in all remaining balance due at time of termination..so not sure what he is suing for

    • pbxtech

      Maybe he is testing the court system and trying to waste Floridian tax dollar.

      It will be thrown out of court.

      • Chilehead

        Yeah. I’m certain that’s his objective lol.

    • Chilehead

      It does say that. If you cancel service when on EIP and have to pay the financed balance does that make it a contact? Hmmm. Perhaps the answer is yes.

      • john

        yes there is a contract with a eip but it’s not threw tmobile persa it’s threw the bank that tmobile uses to finance you the phone which you eSign ..I mean a company not going to just give you a 700 dollar phone on eip and not expect to be paid for it ..

  • The amount of stupidity in these comments, on top of the poorly written article is truly amazing.

    It’s like America has a poor education system and children read this blog. Oh, wait…

    • Jeff

      Is it a contract or not?

      Thank you.

      • Chilehead

        lol. Yes

      • Rob

        EIP is a contract that you can voluntarily agree to when you get a phone. T-Mobile service is not a contract and you can bring your own phone or buy a phone at retail with no contract. I do not get what is so complicated about this. Of course you are going to be under contractual obligation to FINISH PAYING OFF YOUR PHONE!

        • Chilehead

          He asked a simple question. Why so angry?

        • Rob

          He’s been all over this post, it’s not his first question, and this whole thing is ridiculous. What’s even more ridiculous is that since it’s Florida, it’s got a good chance of actually making it to the state Supreme Court all because people are retarded. Nobody wants to take responsibility for failing to know what they were getting into and then suddenly it’s the companies that are held at fault for the falling IQ of this nation.

        • Jeff

          Okay, we agree that it is a contract. Now why T-Mobile says ‘no contracts’, and in plural?

        • Joseph Cascio

          The “no contracts” is in regards to the mobile service, meaning no commitment to the service. T-mobile’s financing of mobile phone purchases is different. There is no company on earth that will finance a purchase for you without some form of a contract being signed. T-mobile service and financing are two separate entities. It’s no different (other than paying interest) than buying the phone on your credit card and paying your CC company, but still getting service with T-mobile. If you want to quit service, just pay t-mobile using your credit card. Think of the zero interest financing as a thank you for staying with T-mobile. Either way, you’re gonna owe then what you owe them.

    • Jared

      Speaking of stupid, you left a comma out after the word article, stupid.

      • Jeff

        Don’t blame him, it’s like the poor education he’s talking about.

        • Jared

          Lol right! Oh the irony…

    • Mr.Ticked

      Nice job Mikey. You made the most stupid comment of them all.

    • Andrew Singleton

      narcissistic personality disorder is a real thing

    • Chilehead

      …clueless.

  • Erik Charles Ciesinski

    As an Employee it states everywhere that if service is cancelled then the remaining balance comes due on phones that were either on EIP or JOD.

    Also TMUS has a financial division. They did it before JOD was started and all stores received a second business license with “T-Mobile Financial” on it.

    So T-Mobile does wireless service and Financial. Hence why it did JOD. However JOD is going to disappear.

    • JOD

      I heard that from another employee that JOD is going away. Are you at liberty share any details?

      • Erik Ciesinski

        Its “already” gone. For new customer walking in the door only EIP is offered. For customers already on JOD they can stay on JOD. Any customers that are going to utilize the smart phone freedom and move from pre to post and become well qualified customers will automatically have JOD… Dont have more than that.

  • NardVa

    Sounds like this guy tried to get 4 Iphones with T-mobile and then take the Iphones somewhere else after 2 months without consequences. Why did it take 2 months for him to figure out T-mobile wasnt wasn’t right for him? He could have cancelled within the remorse period and returned the phones.

    • Rob

      That’s exactly what it sounds like. He wanted to get whatever promo T-Mobile was running at the time and then move to another carrier that wasn’t as lucrative but didn’t read his EIP agreement.

    • Adam

      Interesting word choice, “consequences”. You could have also used: penalty, costs, or fees. There are a bunch of words that represent what happens when someone breaches a contract. The important thing here is the change hand nothing to do with the handset and everything to do with service.

  • Mr.Ticked

    I see a lot of people talking about what is and is not in T-Mobile’s contracts and this article fails to acknowledge anything substantial outside the obvious.

    Below are exactly what a T-Mo customer signs off on for both standard EIP and JOD.

    Actual EIP terminology that customers sign off on:

    “You agree to maintain a T-Mobile voice plan for any device purchased under this contract and any termination of that voice service plan will be a substantial default under this contract and we may declare the remaining unpaid balance of the contract immediately due and payable”

    Pretty cut and dry here. You literally sign right below this on the contract. Yes I said contract. Let’s stop pretending like we can just halt the use of the word contract because that is what a written agreement is, regardless of whether or not you are bound by a two year lock in or not. T-mobile promotes no 2-year or annual service contracts meaning you are not locked in by traditional time based contracts. Not absolutely no contracts whatsoever. If you came into a store and already had a device, you are still signing a contract for the plan you chose. Nobody ever said contracts are gone. This is a business and there will always be some degree of contracts. What should we call them? Promises? You can reword it all you want but the end result is the same.A contract will always be signed to legally bind the agreement. The case now is you are bound by a payment arrangement contract on a device which can be paid off at any time which obviously was not the case years ago when you had no way out of a contract outside of riding it out and never taking discounted devices..

    Contract: “a written or spoken agreement, especially one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law”

    Actual JOD terminology that customers signed off on:

    Following the return period,you may end this lease before the end of the scheduled lease term by notifying us in writing at least thirty days before you terminate and returning all remaining items of Equipment. If you terminate the lease under this paragraph, you must pay the sum (the “early termination amount”): (i) any past due payments or other unpaid amounts due under this lease, plus (ii) the remaining unpaid scheduled lease payments in the amount(s) set forth above for the remaining items, plus (iii) any excess wear and tear and use charges, plus (iv) any additional fees or taxes related to your payment of these amounts.

    This guy had time to resolve this if he did Jump On Demand when he signed. The problem is he did not bother. I feel this was the option he chose which is a lease program. I would also like to know if he took advantage of the Carrier Freedom option to help pay off his fees at his prior carrier. Those fees are paid through a prepaid Visa card that coincidentally take about 6-8 weeks to receive in the mail after submitting your final bill which is very close to the time frame in which he decided to cancel.. Hmm, coincidence?

    I suspect he waited to get that Visa card to pay off his old carrier but then found himself owing $2400 because he could not write T-Mobile too early to get out of the lease otherwise he’d end up having to pay his fees from his other provider. He took his chances, knowing this would happen, and now is trying to swindle his way out of the phones that he still has in his possession.

    This guy needs to man up to his commitments and stop trying to worm his way out of the contracts he signs. Unfortunately the biggest slime balls of them all are on the customer side. It amazes me after 8 years as a tmobile employee on how people try and wriggle out of these agreements. When EIP first launched we had numerous people coming in claiming they never agreed to installments until we showed them the signed agreement we went over with them.

    • Jeff

      It is a contract then, but, that’s what many people are saying.

      • Mr.Ticked

        Yes. By definition it is a service and payment arrangement contract. They dropped annual contracts not contracts. Do these people expect carriers to let them walk out the door with phones without signing a contract leaving them free of any commitments whatsoever? Thanks for reiteraterating what I said. They are, in fact, contracts. Just not two year agreement contracts which is what they eliminated.

        • Jeff

          That’s what T-Mobile needs to make it clear, I think.

        • Mr.Ticked

          Did you read my post? I typed out exactly what is written in these agreements. People leave stores with copies of everything I posted. It is one paragraph that goes over it. How much clearer does it have to be for people? It’d like when people freak over restock fees when it is literally stamped on the box. I could take people like this guy, sit him on my lap like Santa Clause and read him the contract in pop up book format like he was a 5 year old and they would still leave clueless.

        • Jeff

          I mean when they advertise and do promotions.

        • Mr.Ticked

          No way. Advertising is about getting people in stores. If people want the honest part of advertising they need to pause the DVR, grab a magnifying glass and read the fine print. The ad grabs the attention of the viewer, the smartest of us take advantage of the fact that we can pause and read everything the ad does not blast in our faces. Responsibility falls on consumers as well and the fact that we all carry devices that have access to all this information makes it easy to find all the answers.

        • Jeff

          Lol. Who does that?

        • Mr.Ticked

          Maybe even someone with common sense? We have consumers that only know how to consume. God forbid they read up on what they are getting into beforehand. But who does that, right? Like, who actually researches what phones they want and how the plans for the most important device they own works? And then who actually bothers to learn how to use said phones because most of you are too clueless to backup your data or simply soft reset your phone when it acts as little screwy.

          While im ranting about phone stupidity, why cant people grasp the concept of finding out how to learn how to use a function on a smartphone by actually using that smartphone to Google search how to use it? You can use the device to learn how to use the device.

          But, back to what I was saying, who is ridiculous enough to research the next car they are buying? Who reads fine print? What?? Who has the time and brain cells for such a strenuous activity such as google searching the information they need on the device in their freakin pocket you may ask?? Idk.. maybe a person who wants to be informed and not mislead by the bait and switch ads??

        • thepanttherlady

          I have, minus the magnifying glass.

          I also make people wait while I read every part of anything I’m signing.

        • Chilehead

          lol. I knew what I was signing as well. I’m quite happy being a T-Mo customer but I do question the EIP being tied to the service. This could get interesting.

        • SBacklin

          I think the issue is as it is for me is that its word and technicality game T-Mobile is playing. They know when they splash huge no contract words not the screen that people will flock. Then they almost always do the EIP because its usually zero down or a small amount down…just as the old two year contracts would do. If they decide to leave, BAM, full balance due just like an ETF. Different path, same result. Also, in customers’ minds, its the same thing. Its misleading advertising and T-Mobile knows this but is using the “fine print” as it were to fight this and use it as enforcement.

        • Chilehead

          Oddly the ETF was much cheaper. In this scenario the customer will need to fork out much more than a typical ETF which I believe was somewhere around $250.

        • Chilehead

          #missingthepoint

        • thepanttherlady

          Yes, you did.

        • Chilehead

          lol. Guess we’ll see.

        • Chilehead

          Good thing you’re an impartial moderator lol.

        • Jeff

          Sorry, maybe what I said didn’t sound right. I only said “who does that” to your comment of “they need to pause the DVR, grab a magnifying glass and read the fine print.”

          I agree that people need to be smart when doing business with a company, because they can say one thing and do another.

          Cheers.

      • tmoby

        No it is not a contract per say. You get a brand new phone. you can pay cash for it or spread it over 18/24 months if you choose to do so. And you can also pay it off during that time.

        Just like if you buy a TV, computer, tablet, etc and choose to pay for it in 12/24 whatever months.
        You can not make a down payment (eg. $100 on a $1500 computer) on that product and after couple of months say ah no, I do not want it, so I am not gonna pay anymore!

        • Mr.Ticked

          No he’s actually right. It’s a contract. A legal contract can be as simple as you and I writing out a bill of sale with crayon and signing on the X. The issue is that people like him think that they are being swindled because tmobile said no more annual contracts. There areare people that can’t separate that annual contract from a service contract or an installment plan contract in their heads.

  • phil44

    Only in Florida!

  • tmoby

    IF YOU CANCEL WIRELESS SERVICE, REMAINING BALANCE ON PHONE BECOMES DUE.
    This has been on the home page and every cell phone page on T-Mobile’s web site for the past 4-5 years.
    I am surprised any attorney took his case!

    • Isaiah

      The lawsuit is based on false advertising. T Mobile advertises no contracts. But in reality their is a contract when the device is financed since the full balance becomes immediately due when the service is canceled. So their is a penalty like a two year contract. So if the court agrees that if it is false advertising then they will need to determine how much it is going to cost T Mobile to reimburse effected customers and change their advertising. He will still owe the EIP amount but he may only owe a fraction of it after the lawsuit if successful in court.

      • Fabian Cortez

        No [long term] service contracts.

        • Chilehead

          lol. Short term contracts are OK?

        • Fabian Cortez

          lol. Short term contracts are OK?

          Yes, you are engaging in a short term contract with T-Mobile

          You agree to pay T-Mobile for service after the usage period. This is what happens on postpaid.

        • Chilehead

          “You agree to pay T-Mobile for service after the usage period. This is what happens on postpaid.” Well that settles it. I guess I’ll surrender. Thanks for clearing this up.

        • Fabian Cortez

          “You agree to pay T-Mobile for service after the usage period. This is what happens on postpaid.” Well that settles it. I guess I’ll surrender. Thanks for clearing this up.

          Welcome to the world of postpaid utility (cable, Internet, electricity, telephone, etc.) service.

          I am glad I was able to educate you on how the world works with respect to recurring consumption when one’s social security number and credit comes into play.

        • Chilehead

          lol. embrace your ignorance. If T-Mobile continues to tie EIP to their service then it’s a contact.

        • Fabian Cortez

          lol. embrace your ignorance.

          You have yet to prove anything. If there’s any ignorance here, it’s the ignorance you continue to demonstrate as it relates to T-Mobile’s clear wording as it relates to EIP.

          If T-Mobile continues to tie EIP to their service then it’s a contact.

          Speaking about ignorance. Where is the service contract? Please provide some evidence.

          Or would you like to stop wasting your time?

        • Chilehead

          The court will decide. We can argue all day which is fine with me. If I cancel my service then I realize I must pay the remaining balance on my “contract” since my EIP is tied to my service. Your sarcasm is greatly appreciated though.

        • Chilehead

          quote that lol

        • Fabian Cortez

          The court will decide.

          The court will decide and will most likely throw this case out. The language is quite clear. The court is there to enforce contracts, not break them.

          We can argue all day which is fine with me.

          You’re the only one arguing here. The facts are clear and T-Mobile has made everything quite clear. Again, the disconnect is with you.

          If I cancel my service then I realize I must pay the remaining balance on my “contract” since my EIP is tied to my service.

          No. You need to realize this and understand this the moment you sign that dotted line. It is well-spelled out in English.

          Your sarcasm is greatly appreciated though.

          Your disconnect isn’t.

        • Chilehead

          The whole post is about the about the lawsuit. Seems that I’m not the only one arguing here. You also keep missing the point that I’m fine with the “contract”. It’s not about me lol. Please keep quoting me lol.

        • Fabian Cortez

          The whole post is about the about the lawsuit. Seems that I’m not the only one arguing here.

          You are not the only one arguing. You are in the clear minority. The fact remains that the wording in what the plaintiff signed was very clear. If he didn’t want to be held liable for the balance of the phones then he should have bought them outright or brought his own.

          You also keep missing the point that I’m fine with the “contract”.

          Yet here you continue to carry on about this nonsense about [longterm] service contracts.

          It’s not about me lol. Please keep quoting me lol.

          Yet you keep wasting your time. I thought you were done…

        • Chilehead

          lol…It’s a contract. Not sure if I’m in the minority and neither are you. Let’s agree to disagree. I’ll be done when you realize it’s a contract lol.

        • Fabian Cortez

          lol…It’s a contract. Not sure if I’m in the minority and neither are you. Let’s agree to disagree. I’ll be done when you realize it’s a contract lol.

          More facts: T-Mobile no longer offers service contracts.

        • Chilehead

          Now you sound like a T-Mobile rep. Stop while your’re behind.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Now you sound like a T-Mobile rep. Stop while your’re behind.

          Ah, so when you’re unable to deal with the facts, I automatically become a “T-Mobile rep.” Good to know.

          Now troll on to someone else please.

        • Chilehead

          The FACTS are clear. It’s not for me to decide but you are clearly ignorant to the reason for the lawsuit. Not my issue but I realize and understand the spirit of the lawsuit.

        • Fabian Cortez

          The FACTS are clear. It’s not for me to decide but you are clearly ignorant to the reason for the lawsuit. Not my issue but I realize and understand the spirit of the lawsuit.

          Troll on to someone else please.

        • Chilehead

          lol I know a troll when I see one.

        • Fabian Cortez

          lol I know a troll when I see one.

          Troll on to someone else please.

        • Chilehead

          lol. You call me a troll when your argument fails.

      • SBacklin

        It technically isn’t false advertising. As Fabian points out, they advertise no service contracts. I still don’t like their advertising. Its a word game with them. The closest analogy I can think of is using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law. They want to flash in big letters NO CONTRACTS but, its kind of like the smaller details saying, its really no service contracts. T-Mobile knows it will draw unsuspecting people in and knowing just about all will do EIP and thus, they’re stuck with a huge balance if they leave early, its just a different kind. Different path to the same ending. T-Mobile can save a whole bunch of heartache and BS if they would stop using the no contract advertising in full. Then all these discussions would become pointless.

        • Isaiah

          It is false advertising since their EIP payments are tied to the service. That is the problem. T Mobile could fix this by stop falsely advertising no contracts which is not true.

  • vikings football

    why did it take two months for this guy to realize tmobile wasnt for him? and isnt there a 10 or 14 day return policy…if returned within the return policy period, wouldnt it had voided his contract at that point?

  • 33

    why do so many people try to use technicalities and similar tactics to “steal” from businesses. You bought a product that cost so much. You agreed to the plan “you” picked when “you” walked in through those doors. You know how much these iPhones cost. Pay up you dead beat. Your taking someone to court for charging you off for something you’re still not done paying for. You bailed on the deal, what the heck do you expect. This lawsuit is the whole “I’m smarter than you, but in this case I’m super stupid and gots tricked by y’all, but I’m still smarter than you.” gtfoh

    • Isaiah

      I think the issue is. They though they could continue to pay the monthly payments that were due on the phone when they canceled out their T Mobile service. They found out after they canceled service that the whole amount is due. What he is arguing since their is a penalty for canceling service that it is basically a contract. No different than a 2 year contract for a subsidized phone. It is going to be up to a court but their maybe some merit to this.

      • UniBroW

        It’s pretty clear as day that’s not how it works, it’s not even in the fine print. It’s all over their website. People are dumb

        • Chilehead

          …and T-Mobile is smart lol

      • Byron Geils

        The ability to pay monthly installments is an accommodation offered by T-Mobile. There is no penalty for cancelling service since customer’s have already agreed to pay what they have on installments.

        Installments can be continued for the duration of the ‘equipment installment agreement’ by keeping just one line open on the account, even an On-Demand Mobile Internet line.

        • Chilehead

          Keeping a line open is the issue. I’m not hating. I’ve been a T-Mobile customer for over 10 years and am quite happy. It does, however, appear to be a contract for service when on EIP.

        • Deihmos

          The phone can be paid off at any time. It is an installment plan agreement or what they also called higher purchase.

      • Deihmos

        They need to learn to read. The customer service usually tell you this upfront also.

        • Isaiah

          Customers generally do not read what the sign that is part of the problem. They go by what they are told by the sales rep and advertising. The problem is T Mobiles advertises no contracts which is not true since their EIP payments are tied to your service.

        • Deihmos

          Every time I purchase a phone using EIP the rep has always told me if you cancel the balance is due. I am almost sure they are required to tell this to customers that don’t read what they sign.

  • Romdude

    No free phone for you, sorry. If his credit wasn’t good enough to pay off the balance with a credit card, then in the beginning he already benefited from the chance to sign up for the phones even though he had less than stellar credit. Can’t have it both ways and there is no free lunch, errr, phone.

    • Chilehead

      Irrelevant comment. You have no idea what his credit score is.

  • Melvin Suarez J.r

    It’s basically saying no contacts for plans because if you went into a store and brought your own phone in..all you need is a plan.so you wouldnt be paying for a phone.. And if you decided to leave..there will not be a fee to leave…

    since they have a 700 plus phone…theres no fee to leave the plan but since it’s a finance phone ..that alone is a contract..so I see them losing the case..I been with T-Mobile since 07 and know the ins and outs of their services. they signed on the X where it says if you cancel services the remaining balance of phone is due..so I don’t feel sorry for them

  • mreveryphone

    Simply the reason why I buy all my phones outright and don’t have to worry about contracts, payments etc. If you can’t afford 4 IPhone’s at the time of purchase then don’t get upset when you agree to pay installments on them knowing that these phones are not and never will be free! This guy needs to utilize craigslist or Swappa and get his phones before he walks in the front door… Every major cellphone company uses this method so he’s pretty much screwed!

    • Chilehead

      smells like a contact to me. Otherwise he could have simply kept paying the monthly installments. Not many of us can afford 4 X $700. Not hatin’ tho.

      • mreveryphone

        That’s why it says clearly if service is canceled then amount of phones is due. Do you honestly think a company is going to let you pay for 4 expensive phones over time when you’ve cancelled service?

        • Chilehead

          I agree. It clearly does tie the service to the EIP. still reeks of a contract..

  • Byron Geils

    T-Mobile has no annual service contracts or early termination fees. The ability to finance a device (or anything at T-Mobile) is optional and the installments can be fulfilled at any time. Customers signs an ‘equipment installment plan’ agreement to pay what they finance, and they acknowledge that if they cancel service any remaining balancing becomes due.

    One can ague it’s semantics, but T-Mobile, AT&T Next, Verizon Edge, etc. are not annual service contracts.

    • Adam

      Your post fails the duck test. The EIP, walks and quacks like a ‘service contract’. Under the EIP, customers agree to 2 years of service or face the early termination penalty to losing 0% interest. Although the penalty is smaller than the old AT&T contract used to have, it is still an early termination fee.

      • Deihmos

        You know you can pay off the phone at any time? Pay off the phone before cancelling. It is really simple.

  • Critic4U

    I swear I would hear this all the time when I was working for sprint as a call center agent, I didn’t sign a contract, I didn’t agree to that. I would say to them politely (because I have the signed agreement right in front of me) “do you just think that they wanted your signature just because, didn’t you read the financing terms and agreements where it said if you cancelled service it would all become due and you signed it”. People need to realize that you have 14 days in some cases up to 28 days to return it, that is your time to experiment with the device it should only take your realistically one week to determine if the phone or service is going to work for you. If it does great if not port your number back and return everything and get receipts and the employees name, time and day that you returned them, also ask for a manager to help you or get their name also with his signature and the employees signature that it has been returned. It is your own fault if you do not cover your own ass, also just because you missed the return day by one day doesn’t give you the right to get all high and mighty, the agent helping you could care less your just there trying to force them to break policy (They can lose their job and if you think they are going to help you then you’re dead wrong) you signed the finance document and agreement suck it up and continue to use their service or have another carrier buy you out and if you can’t then maybe you need to be on prepaid. Lastly just because you have been with them for six months or longer doesn’t entitle you to anything, the best recourse is to be polite and courteous as you would like to get treated don’t go being a stuck up douche bag and try to get your way because it won’t happen they are not going to forgive the debts owed to them and if you cancel or port out you will have to pay your prior carrier all the money owed because it’s likely you won’t receive that buyout credit card they give you in time so make sure you save up the money to get out first. So moral of the story be polite and read what your signing because this lawsuit will fail…

    • Daistaar

      Understanding punctuation goes a long way my friend. Hope you figure that out some time soon.

      • Critic4U

        Could care less grammar police. Obliviously had to get some out of the bunch but just to be clear if you all wanted to know I care less at all at pleasing you all…

        • Chilehead

          lol Grammar police can be annoying and clearly distract us from the actual topic.

        • Daistaar

          Sorry I couldn’t understand this either. By obliviously, are you saying you’re unaware of the bunch you had to get out? Are you misspelling Obviously? Could care less about pleasing you all? Is it Could care less at all about pleasing you? There’s no need to have “all” twice in this sentence as it’s redundant.

          My point, if you’re looking for it, is when your shit is hard to read, no one is going to want to read it, regardless of how prolific you think your thoughts are. I want to know what you’re saying; not what I think, you think you might be saying.

      • yankeesusa

        Who cares about grammar in this case dude. He’s trying to make a point. If this was an essay for college then you can go ahead and continue, otherwise….

        • Daistaar

          Who cares?! I do which is why I mentioned it. I wouldn’t even finish reading it because it was a garbled mess. I’m not going decipher someone’s thoughts. And this was a customer service person. He could have the most amazing thought in the world but if he can’t get it down what good is it?

  • Talorin

    There is no contract on their service. You know, that signal that gives your phone life..

    The phone is an entirely different beast and not related to having the service. The lawsuit will fail because it is stupid.

    • Chilehead

      ..but it is related to the service. Try canceling service when on EIP and see what happens. Every comment that contains the word “stupid” has been just that.

      • Talorin

        You completely miss the point. The service has no contract and that is what they are advertising. If you cannot comprehend that, jump in on that certain to fail lawsuit. You are definitely of the right aptitude for it.

        • Chilehead

          The service is mandatory if on EIP. It’s fine with me. Just making an observation lol. Please try to keep up.

      • Deihmos

        You can cancel at any time. If you have an EIP balance it becomes due. It is really simple.

        • Chilehead

          Hence the lawsuit. Thanks Captain Obvious.

        • D. Van Nostrand

          What’s not simple for many people to understand is the guy not being AWARE of it when he purchased the phones.

          You can be a genius and not be aware of the most simple contract term.

      • Deihmos

        How is it related to the service when you can pay off the phone at any time? Do you expect to cancel the service then continue paying an installment plan? That’s just stupid. It clearly says if you cancel service the balance becomes due. If you plan to cancel then simple sell the phone and pay or pay it with credit and pay interest. The installment plan is interest free.

  • Darcy Barnes-Ward

    When you sign the lease agreement for the phones it actual states in the agreement that even if you cancel the services you will be billed for the remainder balance of the phones. Sounds like someone failed to actual read what they signed smh

    • Chilehead

      No one is arguing about what T-Mobile’s policy states. It’s more about the fact that it may be misleading to advertise “no contract” since EIP is tied to the service.

    • D. Van Nostrand

      It wasn’t a lease. It was a purchase.

      • yankeesusa

        Yes, a purchase that was financed and that tmobile offered as a “benefit” to the customer by allowing monthly installment payments and no “finance” charges. Go buy a tv with your credit card and then call your credit card company and tell them after 2 months you no longer want it…i guarantee they’ll be like “oh well, you still owe us the rest of the money”

  • Jeff

    The guy is not looking for free phones, read the article. He probably thought that since there are no contracts he can leave whenever he wants and continue paying the phones every month, at least that’s how I understand from reading the article. Most than likely the sales rep didn’t explain to him all the details, why? maybe because he’s a sales rep. T-Mobile sales reps are always repeating that they don’t do contracts and that you can leave whenever you want. Of course he should have read what he was signing even if he believed it was not a contractual agreement.

    But from the ads that say no contract and the reps telling you the same, people may feel like they are not entering into a contractual agreement at all. People may think the signature could be just for the receipt.

    • Adam

      I think the complaint is more about bait and switch. After seeing the commercials, customers falsely believe that T-Mobile does not have contracts that require service. Notice, I said contracts that require service not service contracts, to make the no service contracts people happy. Once the no contracts idea is rooted in the customer’s brain, and make the decision to use T-Mobile because of it, even if they read and understand EIP, they are unlikely to change their mind. People in general do not change their minds easily even if new facts become apparent.

    • Chilehead

      Agreed. T-Mobile makes it very clear that you must pay off your EIP if you cancel service. Looks and smells like a contract to me.

      • Rod

        Becuse EIP is a contract. Theres no contract on the wireless service. If you just want wireless service, you can get service on a month to month basis but you have to bring your own phone. If you lease a phone from them then you are then entering into a contract to pay for the phone over 24 if you continue wireless service.

        • Chilehead

          Correct but you’re missing the point. It’s not a lease btw.

        • Rod

          Sorry, but what point am I missing? The contract stipulates that if you want to pay over 24 months you have to continue wireless service. I understand that T-Mobile is advertisting it as no contract service, but thats just the point; there is no contract on the service.
          I ment to say buy a phone from tmobile, typo.

    • Healthy Energy Dude

      It clearly states that if you terminate your service you have to pay off the balance.

      • D. Van Nostrand

        Where does it clearly state this? And nobody is arguing the balance doesn’t need to be paid off…….but when.

        • yankeesusa

          In the contract he signed….

        • PeeeDeee

          It’s right up front next to every phone in the SHOP area. Here is an iPhone for instance, and you can see the one little paragraph that clearly states the terms of the installment plan … http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/apple-iphone-se.html

          It states …
          ===
          + $30/mo. x 24 mos. If you cancel wireless service, remaining balance on phone becomes due. For well-qualified customer. 0% APR, O.A.C. Qual’g service req’d.
          ===

          And it’s not buried with words above and below, its front and center all by itself on every single phone and accessory that is available through the EIP program.

          If you go to any phone or accessory in the SHOP area it says exactly the same thing for every single phone, and it’s also in the agreement you signed for the phone, If you click the little purple (i) next to the UPFRONT cost link it tells you all over again that you have to pay the balance of the phone if you cancel the service.

          Also on the SHOP page it says it 3 times dead center of the page under each group of 3 phones or tablets.

          It also states it in the lease agreement and if you look at upgrade phones when you log into your account it mentions all over the place when you look at any phone or accessory, It’s also mentioned in the EIP (equipment installment plan) agreement that you digitally sign after you read it. So don’t put your digital signature on it until you read it first, if someone is stupid enough to sign something without reading it through then they shouldn’t be signing anything.

  • Chilehead

    Reality check. No one is arguing T-Mobile’s policy, My interpretation is that the lawsuit contends that T-Mobile is tying your EIP to your phone service. If your EIP is a standalone agreement then you should be able to continue your payments even if you cancel service. I agree that most of us comprehend and accept this agreement but does that make it legal?

    • Bill Berry

      As per Terms & Conditions….As the Un-Carrier, we did away with annual service contracts. You are free to go, although we’d be sad to see you leave. You are responsible for all Charges incurred through the end of your Service term. In addition, cancellation of Service may affect other agreements that you have with us, including equipment installment plans or lease agreements where some of your payments may be accelerated upon cancellation.

      • Chilehead

        I’m not arguing their T&C. It’s quite obvious and pasted everywhere. Still smells like a contract though since EIP is tied to the service. Thanks for sharing though.

  • Rickster

    Why should Tmobile have to wait 22 months for you to finish paying your phones after you canceled service with them and are no longer making them profit.

    Tmobiles equipment installment plan is a courtesy for being a customer.

    If you wanted to keep paying for phones after canceling service you should have gotten either a credit card, loan or line of credit and paid them in full at the store.

    Can you imagine a cable/ satellite company providing you a 24mnth no interest loan for a $2,400 tv you need to use their service and then you cancel in 2 months but they have to wait 22 months to get the money for your tv?

    • Isaiah

      If T Mobile does not allow to continue your monthly payments when service is canceled then that is a contract which T Mobile then is falsely advertising that their is no contract when indeed their is one. If T Mobile requires service to be active in order to make the payments then indeed it is a contract. T Mobile has a couple of ways to solve this. 1 Stop advertising and telling customers that your service has no contracts. 2 Have a third party company finance the phones with interest. 3. Allow customers to continue to make the payments when the account is closed.

      • Jeff

        I think they should separate the wireless service from the phone buying and financing service. Making it clear that they don’t do annual contracts for the wireless service but they do contracts for the phone financing.

        Now, there should be interests of course, but they can credit you the same monthly interest amount while you have service, so if you cancel your service you start paying interests.

      • YABD

        Or returning the device will be the perfect option too.

        • yankeesusa

          After 2 months of use? Depreciation…. why would any company allow you to do this? Would you sell a used phone on ebay and then allow the person to return it after 2 months of using it? I highly doubt it.

      • Deihmos

        Cancel your credit card with a balance and ask them if you can continue making monthly installments until the balance is paid in full. They want full payment immediately or your are heading to collections.

      • yankeesusa

        Wrong, Think again. You are free to move to another service at any time. But if you are financing a phone then you have to pay it all up front. If what you say should be the case then anyone can go buy a car and after 2 months decide they don’t want it anymore so they try to take it back…. it doesn’t work that way. No company in their right mind would allow this. If you can’t fulfill the contract you signed then that is your fault.

        • Isaiah

          Wrong again. You are still free to move your service to another carrier with Verizon and AT&T even under contract, but they did not falsely advertise no contracts in their advertising. What is going to get T Mobile in trouble is their false advertising.

    • Bill Berry

      This is a moot point; what matters is T-Mobile Terms & Conditions at the time of service.

      • T-Mobile’s terms and conditions state that you have to pay the full balance of the phones if you cancel service at any time. I don’t know what is deceiving about that. Also, the reps say, “There will be no interest or finance charges, and you will pay such and such per month for 24 months. If you cancel service, you owe the remaining amount on the phones.”

      • yankeesusa

        That is correct. And the terms are “pay the phone off if you cancel service”. Easy enough. How is it fair for a company that no longer has your business to keep allowing you the “benefit” of paying monthly with no finance charges? This is a benefit of being a customer.

        • Isaiah

          He is going to be liable for the cost of the phone but T Mobile could also be partiality found liable due to their false adverting of no contracts. EIP is a contract due to the fact they tied the device payments to your service which makes it a contract. No different than a two year contract. I know T Mobile has the contracts iron clad you sign in store but T Mobile is still liable for false advertising. That would be up to a court of law how much they are liable for.

  • Bill Berry

    If this clause “As the Un-Carrier, we did away with annual service contracts. You are free to go, although we’d be sad to see you leave. You are responsible for all Charges incurred through the end of your Service term. In addition, cancellation of Service may affect other agreements that you have with us, including equipment installment plans or lease agreements where some of your payments may be accelerated upon cancellation.” existed at the time of service…he doesn’t have a case.

    • Chilehead

      He’s stuck in his contract lol

  • john

    12 year customer here and very unhappy with their poor customer service. have 5 lines and 2 phones on installment plans, if i cancel, what happens? give back the phones and remaining equipment payment is canceled too or?
    If I cancel TMO, My choice will be AT&T because I want GSM and my phones should work overseas.

    • Andrew

      Are you commenting just to vent and complain because you seem to be a little ill informed about everything. If you decide to cancel your service with TMO then you’ll have to pay off your remaining balance on the phones. Everything is stated in the agreement YOU signed before receiving the phones but whether you read it or not is a different story.

      Just so you know, TMO is also a GSM network so I don’t understand what going to AT&T will do for you. As long as your phone is unlocked, you can use any GSM phone over seas with a different SIM card. If you go to AT&T, they will not unlock your phone until you finish your 2-year contract. TMO will usually unlock your phone if you pay for half of the phone or pay for the phone in full (assuming your account is in good standing). But why bother when TMO already includes an international plan with the simple choice plan with free data (works with 140+ countries) and $0.20/min phone calls or free with wifi calling. I’ve been a TMO customer for almost 10 years and have used my tmobile phones in Canada, UK, Germany, France, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Jordan, Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Mexico, Honduras, Belize, Equatorial Guinea, Nigeria, and Ghanna.

      • Chilehead

        He may just be venting. Nothing wrong with that. I still have poor service in the center of a major city with T-Mobile so AT&T may be a better option.

      • john

        i am not complaning anything here I am asking questions here. I know TMO is also a GSM and this is a major reason why I stayed with TMO for 12 yrs. And to my knowledge, the only other major carrier here that carries GSM phones is AT&T. If I buy any phones for my 5 lines family plan, i like those phones to work overseas or give them to my relatives overseas after I switch to a different phone like every 2 yrs. Is it still true that Sprint is still CDMA and their phones don’t work on GSM networks?

        Thanks

        • Jeff

          Some phones are dual mode: GSM and CDMA. What you need to do is check the specs with the model number to see what bands a phone has. Keep in mind that the carrier has to unlock the phones before you can use them with other carriers, read or ask about unlocking conditions.

    • Deihmos

      Next time read before you sign. If you cancel your credit card the balance becomes due immediately.

  • YABD

    Why returning devices and no paying remaining balance is not an option? Because Tmobile didn’t eliminated contract, they just reinvented. If you don’t want to pay a remaining balance just stay with them 2 years, the same thing with CONTRACTS!!!!!!!!

    • Andrew

      No one is forcing you to buy a phone from tmobile.

      • Chilehead

        Who is arguing that?

        • Andrew is meaning that there is no obligation to buy a phone from t-mobile and make your phone bill go up or make you have to pay off before cancelling. If they went back to contracts, the plans would go up the same amount as adding a phone payment onto it, yet you would have no choice. Everybody’s bill would go up to accommodate for everyone’s subsidized phone. If you don’t want to owe money to t-mobile to cancel, then don’t finance a phone through them. Just, save up your money.

        • Chilehead

          You might just be Andrew lol. The lawsuit pertains to the fact that T-Mobile decided to connect EIP to the phone service. Why is that so hard to comprehend???? I give up.

        • T-Mobile doesn’t connect EIP to phone service unless you tell them to. They don’t turn away customers who want to pay for phones outright. Its the customer’s decision to add an EIP to their phone bill, not T-Mobile’s.

        • Chilehead

          Still looks and smells like a contract. I like T-Mobile. I just know a contract when I see one.

        • In essence, yes, it is a contract. But, you don’t have to enter that contract. So, if you activate T-Mobile service today, bringing your own phone, if you cancel after 2 months, you are free to go. You owe them nothing (besides your final bill of course). That’s it, no penalties. In this sense, there is no contract.

        • Chilehead

          The issue is T-mobile decided to tie your EIP to your service. Doesn’t bother me but it’s still a contact.

        • calcu007

          It is the same with other companies with contract. If you bring your own phone you can leave any time.

        • Chilehead

          lol no one is debating that.

        • calcu007

          So it is a contract, they call it EIP.

        • Chilehead

          …that’s tied to your service.

        • Fabian Cortez

          That makes too much sense.

          Unfortunately I fear that there are still those that’ll argue this for some reason.

        • Chilehead

          If EIP is tied to your service it’s a contract. You’ll never get it though lol.

        • Fabian Cortez

          If EIP is tied to your service it’s a contract. You’ll never get it though lol.

          T-Mobile is very clear about how EIP is handled. I suggest you reread it.

        • Jeff

          Why read if there’s no contracts?

        • Chilehead

          He doesn’t get it lol

        • Fabian Cortez

          A recurring service has a contract as it relates to the exchange or goods and services for money.

          Believe it or not, you sign contracts more often than you think. If you have a landscaping company come out and mow your lawn, you have a contract.

          If they don’t perform the work as specified within the contract, you have legal recourse with this contract even though it’s not a longer my service contract. Which is what T-Mobile no longer offers: service contracts.

          Please accept this as this has been occurring since 2013.

        • Chilehead

          This is good and helpful information on how contracts work. It’s a darn good thing T-Mobile doesn’t have them lol.

        • Fabian Cortez

          This is good and helpful information on how contracts work. It’s a darn good thing T-Mobile doesn’t have them lol.

          You are now trolling.

          I suggest you take your own advice and stop. You have a severe disconnect as it relates to all of this.

        • Chilehead

          lol…Your ignorance has no boundaries.

        • Fabian Cortez

          lol…Your ignorance has no boundaries.

          Your ad hominem is right on time.

          It is expected when you’re unable to deal with the facts.

          Troll someone else please.

        • Jeff

          That’s what we’ve been saying, there is a contract for the service and there is a 2 year contract called EIP agreement when you finance a phone, but there is no 2 year contract of service alone, just a service contract that is just for the service.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Is anyone forced into EIP to get T-Mobile service?

          T-Mobile clearly states no service contracts…

        • Jeff

          When you say “service contract”, you mean annual contracts, right?

        • Fabian Cortez

          This is quite clear. And if you cancel wireless service, the balance of the phones becomes due.

          Very clear and laid out before the customer signs the dotted line.

        • Jeff

          But having to pay the full balance of the phones could be worse than the ETF of 2 year contracts and that’s what the argument is, they call it ‘punitive’, for a service that is advertised as having no contracts.

        • Fabian Cortez

          Hardly and irrelevant. The money involved is absolutely irrelevant. Not to mention the fact that the ETF, along with the initial payment for the phone and the increase in price per month balances out.

          The EIP was signed to and agreed to by the customer. If the customer didn’t agree to it then he or she shouldn’t have signed the dotted line in the first place.

          Not agree to the terms and then come around and expect a judge to annul the agreement.

          Fact: if you don’t want to owe the balance of the phone, then don’t engage into EIP.

        • Jeff

          We know that, the issue is the alleged false advertising of no contracts. That’s why we are talking about contracts. What do you say, are there contracts or not? I know, I know… it sounds like a yes or no question.

        • Fabian Cortez

          T-Mobile advertises no service contracts. In the traditional sense in the wireless industry.

          It is well-listed on their website and has been this way since 2013 (3 years ago). It sounds like you’re confusing things.

        • Jeff

          On the ads it just says ‘no contracts’, and that is important because that will be presented as evidence. Personally, of course I know there are ‘no annual contracts’, what I think you call ‘service contracts’.

        • Chilehead

          lol…it’s ok to be slow. I realize how EIP works. It’s tied to my phone service if I cancel. Thanks for being so informative though.

        • Jeff

          In other words we can say the service is part of the EIP contract or the entire deal becomes a contract.

        • Chilehead

          Correct. Hence the lawsuit. I realized this when I signed the EIP but it is tied to your service agreement. It’s a contract.

        • Fabian Cortez

          lol…it’s ok to be slow.

          No it’s not okay. “Slow” individuals should not engage in clear financing contracts as it relates to large financial sums.

          I realize how EIP works. It’s tied to my phone service if I cancel. Thanks for being so informative though.

          I don’t think you do. If you did, this disconnect wouldn’t exist.

          Try a little bit harder.

        • Chilehead

          If your EIP is tied to your phone service then It IS a contract. You seem like a nice guy. Thanks for engaging.:)

        • Fabian Cortez

          If your EIP is tied to your phone service then It IS a contract. You seem like a nice guy. Thanks for engaging.:)

          No one is forced to get EIP to use T-Mobile. Likewise, with EIP, one can pay off EIP ahead of time which will not impact their service. Additionally, the dotted line one signs clearly states that if one discontinues service, then the balance of the phone becomes due.

          So no, this is not a service contact. Now move along.

        • Chilehead

          Always missing the point. If said customer has EIP then their phone service becomes a contract. It’s OK for you to be confused, many are, including the plaintiff..

        • Fabian Cortez

          Always missing the point. If said customer has EIP then their phone service becomes a contract. It’s OK for you to be confused, many are, including the plaintiff..

          This is incorrect information.

          On EIP, a customer can put more money down any moment to pay down the balance of the device, thus reducing the amount of payments remaining

          On a 2-year service agreement, one cannot.

          Now deal with the facts and move on.

        • Chilehead

          Good information but hardly pertinent. Many customers cannot afford to pay for phones outright. We all realize EIP is a finance agreement but it SHOULD NOT BE TIED TO YOUR PHONE SERVICE! You might just be a T-Mobile rep . Move on lol

        • Fabian Cortez

          Good information but hardly pertinent. Many customers cannot afford to pay for phones outright.

          Good. Then these customers shouldn’t seek out $650+ phones.

          We all realize EIP is a finance agreement but it SHOULD NOT BE TIED TO YOUR PHONE SERVICE!

          Good to know. Maybe you should start your own wireless carrier and offer EIP not tied to service.

          I’m sure you’ll be quite successful. Maybe as successful as you are at comprehending all of this.

          You might just be a T-Mobile rep . Move on lol

          And you’re definitely trolling. Move along.

        • Chilehead

          Although I’d admire your persistence you clearly don’t comprehend the lawsuit. Keep repeating yourself though. I won’t accuse you of being a troll like you have said to me but you are completely ignorant of the reason for the lawsuit.. Please continue lol

        • Fabian Cortez

          Although I’d admire your persistence you clearly don’t comprehend the lawsuit. Keep repeating yourself though. I won’t accuse you of being a troll like you have said to me but you are completely ignorant of the reason for the lawsuit.. Please continue lol

          Troll someone else please, Mr. “I’m done trying to explain this” and “stop waiting my time Fabian..” from 2 hours ago…

        • Chilehead

          Stop arguing and let the court system make sense of this. It will be OK. Still reeks of a contract to me lol.

        • Jeff

          I’m leaving, you two keep the good fight. Don’t make me stay, just say bye. :)

        • Chilehead

          lol bye Jeff. I think he’s done.

        • Jeff

          Bye everyone. :)

        • Jeff

          I say it is confusing for anyone when we talk about contracts or no contracts. The false advertisement and the punitive action claims has its merits, let’s see what the court decides.

    • yankeesusa

      Because it’s like saying you want to return a new car you just bought after 2 months. The price has depreciated so it’s not worth the same. If people were allowed to do that left and right then companies would be hurting. It’s just common sense, you agree to buy something then you pay full price.

  • Mike

    Just go back to the old contract and subsidized phones. Consumers always paid for the phone through higher rate plan over 24 months (just added the cost of the phone in over 24 months). Isn’t that what the current NO CONTRACT plan does anyway if I finance a phone? If I have to keep service over the payment plan it really is a contract. What’s the differ difference with a balloon payment or an early termination fee? It’s all about semantics.

    • Chilehead

      Actually the ETF was much cheaper. When you finance you are obligated to pay the entire cost of the phone. The contract model might actually be a better option for many.

      • Fabian Cortez

        Actually the ETF was much cheaper. When you finance you are obligated to pay the entire cost of the phone. The contract model might actually be a better option for many.

        What happens after the 24th month in a service contract? Also, service contract prices were actually higher per month to offset the “free” phone.

        • Chilehead

          The phone was never “free”. You are still missing the point that T-Mobile requires you to have service if on EIP.. I’m done trying to explain this. Have a great day!

        • Fabian Cortez

          The phone was never “free”.

          Yes, under a 2-year service agreement, a $0 phone was “free” to the end user. There was zero transparency as the monthly price was the same whether you bought a phone (99 cents, $1, $199, etc.), received one for “free” ($0 specials), or brought your own.

          But you still haven’t answered my question: What happens after the 24th month under a 2-year service contract?

          You are still missing the point that T-Mobile requires you to have service if on EIP..

          That was never the point. No one brought this up.

          T-Mobile is a wireless carrier. They are being courteous by offering their subs. 0% financing for a device that is contingent upon the fact that they seek wireless service. T-Mobile is not a bank nor a lending institution. I am sorry if you were confused about that. You seem confused about a lot of things.

          I’m done trying to explain this. Have a great day!

          Then don’t start in the first place!

        • Chilehead

          T-Mobile is being courteous? Not really. They are just smarter than the average bear. If the EIP wasn’t tied to the phone service then they would be courteous. Stop wasting my time Fabian..

        • Fabian Cortez

          T-Mobile is being courteous? Not really. They are just smarter than the average bear.

          They absolutely are being courteous. They have no obligation to provide 0% financing to their subs. Zero obligation. And yes, they are absolutely “smarter than the average bear.” 10 straight quarters of millions upon millions of adds supports this. I am glad you are paying attention.

          If the EIP wasn’t tied to the phone service then they would be courteous.

          I’m sensing a disconnect here. T-Mobile is not a financial institution nor a lender. They are in the business of providing wireless service. The day that they decide to venture into lending, I will be sure to alert you so that can you take full advantage of this offering.

          Stop wasting my time Fabian..

          This quite the ironic statement. After all, only you can waste your own time. But then again, you previously mentioned that you were “done trying to explain this.”

        • vince

          Lol, fighting about “free”. Why so defensive about T-Mobile? Or the lawsuit guy did something to you or your best friend?

        • Fabian Cortez

          Lol, fighting about “free”. Why so defensive about T-Mobile? Or the lawsuit guy did something to you or your best friend?

          No VN, troll someone else please.

        • Bklynman

          What happens after 2 year contract was up? All depended what state you are in,what there consumer laws are,in NYC,thay couldn’t cancel your contract(NYC have some of toughest laws CL),even if you didn’t resign with them,they still had to honor that contract. State by state.
          Since most didn’t want to lose people,most would honor that contract,even if they didn’t have too. Let’s not forget,most phone makers would bring out new phones every 2 years,some case every 3 years,unlike today where it seems like they are bring out new phones every 6 months to every year.

    • (J²)

      Mike,

      It has never been proven that those on a traditional 2 year contract paid a higher rate plan. This “myth” was used as a way for Verizon and AT&T side step explanations for high service plan costs. At one time, you had to sign a 2 year contract even if you were BYOD and you were subject to the same terms and rates as someone who purchased the latest iPhone.

      In order to attract customers (THEN) with reasonable upfront prices (Free, $99, $199, etc), carriers subsided phone costs (and recouped losses by raising service plan rates across the board, not just to those who had a contract or new device). In reality, customers received a subsidized device for 24 months commitment/loyalty and static upgrade dates. The only way out was to proceed to paying pretty close to the actual retail value of the phone. If the iPhone was $199 upon signing, plus a $350 ETF, you end up paying $549 which is only $100 less than the full retail price of the base model.

      That means the FREE iPhone carriers use to offer, was actually at zero additional cost all that was required was 2 years of commitment to the carrier.

      Again, just to clear up a common misconception… You do not pay more for a service plan because you are under a traditional contact, which means their are no added charges.

      Carriers simply started to understand that customers collectively prefer to pay more-in installments if that means they are free to upgrade more often, break contract, unlock their devices and etc. Offering subsidized phones has always been a huge burden for carriers because customers were not paying more for their free or discounted phones. This burden was masked and in some cases, offset by rate hikes.

  • Jeff

    Comparing it to credit cards is not the same because your credit card billing is not bundled into a contract with you electricity service or any other service, that if you cancel one of those services your credit card also cancels.

    Just call them contracts when you’re financing a phone. And if you don’t want to get into a contract BYOP. Everything else should be the same including plan rates.

    • (J²)

      It’s a line of credit, it’s separate and very straightforward. Comparing a credit card to an unaffiliated utility company is not a good example.

      A line of credit is optional and in some cases offers added benefits – it just depends. A more accurate analogy is cancelling your credit card but still expecting to receive all of the benefits like travelers insurance, free credit reporting and whatever other perks are thrown in.

      For one, it’s in the the agreement which is the same thing as a contract. If you have to sign it, it is an agreement – you can’t later claim you were unaware even if you were confused because the information is there. T-Mobile forces subscribers to read, date and sign agreements before equipment is shipped. I would say that people should use common sense but I find it hard to believe that this is a case of someone who truly didn’t know but instead someone looking for a loophole.

      Yes, T-Mobile is inconsistent (or downright sloppy) with advertising (among other things) which makes exploiting loopholes easier but that does not dismiss what has been stated above.

      • Your Mi Boy Blu

        There are laws in the US against predatory lending though.

        • (J²)

          This is not a case of predatory lending though. This is the case of a customer that wanted to cancel service, keep their devices and continue to make small installment payments to pay off 4 phones.

          T-Mobile will work with customers, if you have valuable phones under contract, they will take them back and remove the equipment charges from your balance. Both Verizon and T-Mobile have extended this offer to me.

          T-Mobile’s agreement clearly outlines what happens upon cancellation.

          In addition to completely disregarding the terms of their agreement, this customer is clearly unwilling to return or sell their devices to take care of the balance.

        • yankeesusa

          Wrong reply, sorry.

  • vikings football

    hhmm, i dont know how this dude can call tmobile deceptive regarding this matter…becuase it is written in the contract, and that the rep that activated my phone highlighted in yellow where it says that i must pay in full the remaining balance of my payment if i decide to discontinue my service with them…DECEPTIVE? hell no!!! maybe next time read the entire contract before signing LOL

    • Chilehead

      It’s not deceptive but it looks and smells like a contract lol. Get it?

      • yankeesusa

        Yes, it’s a contract for the phones he agreed to purchase. Not for the service that is month to month. Sometimes it does good to read a contract before agreeing to it. It’s just common sense.

  • Exactly. T-mobile clearly states that you will have no penalties for canceling, but you must pay back whatever you owe left on the devices. T-mobile just calls their debt in because they do not charge interest, so the longer they are without it, the more it hurts them. If you do not want to owe money to them, there is no obligation to finance a phone through them. I was tired of paying monthly for my iphone, so I sold it, took that money to T-mobile and paid it off. I bought a brand new Nexus 5x outright for $250 (thanks for the sale price google) and have no issues and if I ever need to cancel T-mobile, I won’t owe them anything.

    The difference between contracts and finance agreements is that you are willingly borrowing money from T-mobile, promising to pay it back over 24 months, or upon cancellation of service. The contracts made you pay for everybody’s subsidized phones every month all year long, every year, no matter what. And guess what, if you wanted to leave, you have to something like $30 per line per month left on the contract. Yes, that may be cheaper than $2600 in phones, but no where is T-mobile forcing you to finance a phone. If, you don’t want to be on the hook for $2600, don’t finance $2600 in phones.

    This all comes down to the simple principle that America seems to struggle with a lot: don’t spend money on things you can’t afford.

    • (J²)

      Completely agree!

      It would be nice if T-Mobile allowed customers to continue to pay for their devices in installments after leaving the carrier but T-Mobile isn’t interested in being a financial institution but instead simply trying to appease customers by offering financing options.

      T-Mobile’s Ads are not consistent, some say “No Contracts” others say “No Service Contracts” but that doesn’t excuse subscribers from failing to read the terms, disregarding the terms or flat out not using common sense.

      The article clearly represents someone who wanted to finance a phone and later use it with another carrier and continue to finance after terminating T-Mobile service. They did not want to return the device (I’m sure 60 days in T-Mobile would have allowed it (they’ve offered this to me previously after 3 months), if they didn’t like this option they could have sold the devices and covered almost all fiance charges – they are iPhones. Only in our country will people sue after facing consequences that their actions led them to.

      Only T-Mobile customers are allowed to take advantage of EIP’s and leases, if you terminate service you are no longer a customer which means all of the perks are gone and you still have to pay any outstanding charges. Like a bank (or line of credit), if your account is closed – you are still responsible for paying your outstanding balances in full ASAP, not in installments.

      This truly disgusts me.

      • Your Mi Boy Blu

        What disgusts me even more is the reality that this guy probably traded the phones in for a $100 credit.

        Now Guido at T-Mobile’s PayDay Loan business is telling him he owes 4x the trade-in credit they probably received when he switched to a network that met their family’s needs.

      • NardVa

        T-mobile will let you cancel service and continue monthly payments on your phone, but you have to get the phone with Junp On Demand (lesse agreement) and cancel service within 30 days. I don’t know if the person had EIP or Jump On Demand, but he cancelled outside of 30 days.

        • (J²)

          That’s actually not true, both EIP and JOD clearly state remaining balance is due upon termination of agreement.

          T-Mobile has introduced “Coverage Guarantee” but this has to meet a certain criteria. A) Approved reason for termination B) Must have a coverage guarantee eligible device (Band 12 supported and in a certain price range) C) Device must be leased through Jump On Demand.

          Of course, if T-Mobile representatives could choose to bend the rules in the customers favor and disregard the criteria for this program.

          Coverage Guarantee wasn’t introduced until the iPhone 6s’ release in September 2015. That means that such an option did not exist during this incident.

      • yankeesusa

        Please do some research. You are free to go to any service you want if you cancel services. You just have to pay all the money up front. Why would they let you continue to pay monthly if you are no longer customer? If you want that then just pay full price for the phone with a credit card and pay them back monthly. This is a service offered to the customer that helps the customer avoid any interest charges.

        • (J²)

          Who are you disagreeing with? We are essentially saying the same thing. :/

          I agree with you.

          Like I said, it would be nice but its not how business works.

        • yankeesusa

          Sorry, i think i responded to wrong person.

    • Your Mi Boy Blu

      I disagree. There’s no safety valve or way to return the phone.

      Besides, if you call to cancel, T-Mobile tells you you can get a different phone mailed (JUMP program), get a cell booster, or a T-Mobile approved WiFi router.

      By the time you take any of these options, and get one of these devices mailed, you’ve exhausted the 14 day return and cancellation timeframe. Getting a cell booster or new phone doesn’t re-start the return policy or “trial clock”.

      • Kim

        Yes they are business they find ways to keep you, if you choose to accept their offer than you have to accept the condition or consequence along with it. In the end it is your choose you are not force. You can be greedy just want the good and don’t accept the bad or consequences along with it. If the policy you can’t return the phone than you need to know that. Not just think great I get the new phone I can use with 0% finance and just expect to return any time. Who do business like that let me know. You can sell or trade in the phone. No one will just like you use their phone especially new one and return it when ever you wish with no charge. Wishing think time to wake up to reality.

    • PeeeDeee

      Exactly

    • Adam

      Since payment acceleration is not a penalty. Please lend my $100K. I will return it back to you in 2100. Of course, payment acceleration IS an early termination penalty.

      Where do you think the money for 0% interest is coming from? The people that pay for their phones in full, subsidize everyone else.

  • Kim

    All I have to say it is first legal as it is on contract. Second reasonable and obvious because who will let you finance things from them 0% if you are not a patron or affiliated with them? Sometimes not even your closing kin or relative would. It is common sense, imagine you run a business and everything just walk of with 0% interest. If you do let me know I want to borrow some money.

  • yankeesusa

    Is this serious? How is this even allowed? It should be thrown out of court as soon as they see this. Basically this guy is saying that if you agree to buy a phone and you get option to pay monthly but after 2 months you decide you don’t want it, you don’t have to pay anymore? Okay, let me call my bank and tell them i don’t want to pay my monthly car payment and still get to keep the car. Moron.

    • Isaiah

      It is allowed because T Mobile falsely advertised no contracts in their ad’s when that is not true. If you use EIP which most people do then it ties your monthly payments to the service and if you do not keep your service then the full amount comes due immediately. Just like a 2 year contract. The guy is not going to get out of jail free since he signed a contract that stated this but T Mobile is going to have to eat some of those costs due to their false adverting.

      • awel

        Actually they advertise “T-Mobile was the first carrier to do away with annual service contracts”… Service contracts.. These are Equipment loans. Yes, it could be considered a contract, but not for service..

        • Isaiah

          It is a service contract since the EIP agreement is tied into your phone service. T Mobile needs to stop advertising No contracts in their advertising since that is false and their would be no problems.

        • riley

          Its not though. Because you can get service and not buy phones from T-Mobile.

  • Moe

    We can all hold our opinions about what should happen in this case but only the courts opinion is what counts here. We have all seen strange outcomes in court cases – recall the hot coffee case involving McDonalds. Who would have ever thought that McDonalds would have to pay out millions for a stupid person putting a hot cup of coffee between her legs. TMO is (maybe) right to call for the payment in full when service ends but only the Court will decide if the contract language supports this action or if it is considered deceptive advertising. No doubt will be an interesting outcome.

    • Adam

      The McDonalds coffee case is just an urban legend. In the actual case, McDs payed not much more than medical bills. They had previously received 700 complaints about coffee burns, some of which, the victims where paid off.

    • Kim

      No one really know about the whole true. What in reality is they use a technology that heats it up to some above normal temperature and the save them money. The person actually got burn pretty bad. They were supposedly pay what they save with that process.

  • Thomas C

    Does anyone believe that these idiots didn’t think they would have to pay for their phones? I hate lawyers and stupid consumers.

    • Isaiah

      I hate company’s who think their above the law and think they can use false and misleading advertise with no consequences.

  • anon ymous

    I don’t think he’s filing a lawsuit so that he doesn’t pay the remaining balance of the phones. A valid argument would be T-Mobile shouldn’t advertise “no contract” and “no hidden fees” when there is technically some. A possible solution for all parties is for T-Mobile to allow customers to leave without charging the remaining balance of the EIPs. Instead allow the monthly payments of the devices without service. Or just take the phone back. If this lawsuit wins i hope they are able to define “No contract.” Also can people from other states join this lawsuit?

    • Kim

      Well I think it is not false of any is white lies. All company and ads are like that claiming to be best and stuff. Free and unlimited is always use but there are always expect or some attach it is normal and sensible. It is on contract. People are just being greedy and unreal and try take everything good and not any condition and consequences. If T-Mobile is falsely advertising so is like all company. I don’t think any company would like everyone just jump on and leave just for the 0% finance. People do and will take every advantage of rule and exploit, may be need a reality check here.

    • Liberty’s 15 Minutes of Claims

      Well, with 500+ comments, there are a lot of people who also believe
      there is disparity in T-Mobile ads.

      If the customer thinks they’ve been taken advantage of, they should also file a complaint; Possibly with the Consumer Financial Services Protection Bureau on the terms of the Equipment Installment Purchase Contract and also how the obligation was sold and marketed.

      The correct complaint would be against the hedge fund that owns the obligation- that is Steel Partners LLC, (On Lexington Ave in NYC) through their wholly-owned subsidiary, Web Bank (in Salt Lake City, Utah).

      Additionally, the FTC would probably want to review such claims to see if they fit “Truth In Advertising” standards. That would be a FTC complaint.

      You say other businesses do this too. Show me another plan, marketed in ads as
      “No Contract” where a customer runs any type of risk of being sent to collections. Moshe wouldn’t have any case if the ads had legal copy; but they didn’t.

      For humorous resolve, why not watch the Apple Ad titled “Get a Mac – Legal Copy”.

      Point is that if the customers bought the phones during a Black Friday Special, or any other time the contract obligation was written, chances are highly likely that the training T-Mobile provided its employees and third-party retailers authorized to perform business didn’t get disclosed. Mistakes happen.

      These are absolutely additional legitimate court cases. Taking these issues to a “Free Forum” such as online isn’t the same as using hard-earned dollars to retain an attorney. Good for Moshe Farhi for securing his day in court.

  • Anonymous

    it took 2 months for him to realize that T-Mobile doesn’t suit him? receipt states option of buyer’s remorse & passed that, customers are obligated to finish installments. that guy probably didn’t even add the jump feature on his account & damaged all 4 phones and was told the option to double stack or pay off current to start anew installments — because if he was “smart” and HAVE THE JUMP program, and really “unhappy due to service”, he can settle paying 50% of the phones, then JUMP to a low-cost device, then return that device within 14 days so then all installments are paid off and cancel service with only paying the last use of service. not something that T-Mobile would’ve instructed, but hey, we all tend to figure out the system sooner or later… unless your last name is Farhi.

  • Jeff

    I think many fear that if T-Mobile losses the case it would mean a return of the 2 year subsidizing contracts. I say it could all stay the same, except for the ads that say there is no contracts.

    If you want the $50 plan with 2GB but don’t want to enter into a long term contract, you BYOP or pay your phone in full.

    If you want the $50 plan and a phone with financing then you enter into the 24 month contract and pay the monthly phone installments.

    For when you are in a contract and decide to cancel your service, T-Mobile should come up with a reasonable solution for paying the balance of the phone. I say make the customer pay interests.

    • Clifton K. Morris

      They should loose the case.

      T-Mobile sells no obligation to service. However, an actual obligation with a third-party company whose principle offices are across the street from LVMH and Bloomingdales on Lexington Ave in NYC is on the paper presented in the store.

      This paper is signed within property which is typically written in a T-Mobile Office or third-party contractor “Authorized Retailer”.

  • moonoverparma

    They make it very clear that if you cancel service after 14 days you owe the balance of the phones. They’re not hiding anything.

    • Isaiah

      Thank you for acknowledging that it is indeed a contract that is tied to your service.

      • moonoverparma

        Still not a hidden fee

        • Isaiah

          Still False Advertising
          .

        • moonoverparma

          You can call it whatever you want, but there’s no way that this idiot walked out of that store not knowing he has to pay the balance of those phones if he cancels the service. It’s stated everywhere the advert is posted and in the paperwork he’s given before he left the store.

        • Isaiah

          I like how people are assigning all the blame on him. But people are not holding T Mobile one bit accountable for their false advertising. Verizon and AT&T Wireless do not advertise no contracts even though they no longer have a 2 year contract option. The reason they do not advertise no contract is due to the fact they tie their payment plans into the service which makes it a contract. The installment plans are 2 year contracts reinvented.

        • moonoverparma

          I totally agree with you on that. T-Mobile should’ve been clearer on that. But when you do in fact get a phone from them on a payment plan, they make it very clear that you owe the money if you cancel service before you even walk out of the store.

        • Isaiah

          No one is arguing that it is in the contract. The average consumer does not read what they sign but that is not T Mobile’s problem either. But if they advertised their service as no contracts and the customer did not look at what he signed thinking it was a receipt or acceptable use policy. That argument could be made as well. I hope T Mobile has a good lawyer because they are going to need one.

        • theicehog

          All the paperwork T-Mobile keeps? Service Agreement, EIP Agreement, Receipt. It all says the same thing over and over. They don’t have contracts, they have loan agreements with the customer. A contract is a legally binding agreement based on time. If the customer cancels a contract they are penalized by not completing the duration of the contract. T-Mobile isn’t penalizing you if you leave, they just ask for the money the customer agreed to pay to T-Mobile.

        • Kim

          The no contract but there are always exceptions and a reasonable individual shouldn’t really expect to walk away with phone with 0% finance from a company. It is like your girlfriend break up with you and if she owe you money which she pay no interest do you want everything back once? There will always be contract depend how you define signing anything is a contract so it is false to begin with in that sense. It is more of a financial then a service contract depend how you see it. If you just get service you can leave no contract yet you still have to sign a contract for agreement and that sort of stuff.

        • Clifton K. Morris

          The don’t advertise it that way.

          It takes only one person with a VHS tape to be proven correct in court.

        • Isaiah

          It is not a financing contract since T Mobile has it tied in with their service hence a contract. It is the 2 year contract model reinvented.

        • Kim

          No contract with exceptions ok. All ad are like that they don’t go into details. So you say that if you don’t pay for you phone and they stop your service also violates no contract? Since it is bound to your service.

        • Kim

          Yes it is like reinventing the 2 year in a way but all it may be is gray area not really false or illegal. That is business saying something is free or unlimited but no quite true. You are only bound to what you owe but no penalty, sounds fair enough. If they make you pay penalty for ending service and not finish paying than it is a different story.

        • Isaiah

          T Mobile has to have some penalty to end their false advertising even if they have to pay all EIP customers who canceled service and had to pay full balance a $1.00 or 2.

        • Isaiah

          The problem is T Mobile’s advertising of no contract. That is going to hurt them in court. So it will be interesting to see what they do since both sides were wrong.

    • Clifton K. Morris

      Normal return policy is 30 days. As posted on T-Mobile’s website.

      14 days may be required by resellers or under special provisions of the Master Agreement (MCSA).

      Customers of indirect resellers have to present a “Secondary Contract” to enact a 14-day provision.

      • theicehog

        He bought it from a store which states 14 days. The online and store business are completely separate business models.

  • Clifton K. Morris

    So, how are we doing with the T-Mobile “Bury Cliftons’s Comments” strategy T-Mobile is using here..?

    Over 500 comments? not bad..!

  • Gseltj

    SMH…. You walk out of a store with 4 new $600ish phones and feel like you were deceived when you’re told they need to be paid for?

    • Durandal_1707

      Years of the subsidized model has created the notion in people’s heads that a state-of-the-art smartphone costs 50¢.

      • Isaiah

        Not only that but it allows cell phone manufactures to charge outrageous prices for their products. I think cell phone companies should stop phone financing and 2 year contracts. Have low end, middle, and flagship phones that way your customers have different pricing depending on the budget and situation. Make all their plans no credit check and you pay a small deposit to guarantee payment.

        • Marcus

          Isn’t that what they do now? You have the choice of what device you purchase and how you purchase it. I prefer the flagships, but I don’t like paying $700 up front; therefore I take advantage of the EIP option. No one forces the EIP option on you, you have the BYOD or pay outright.

        • Isaiah

          No you do not have a choice. It is either pay full retail price which would be between $140.00 – $780.00 depending on the device. Not everybody can afford that especially if it is a multi line account. They just replaced the two year contract system with a 2 year payment system. In that payment system if you cancel the service you are assessed a penalty. That penalty is the balance becomes due now instead of the payments broken into 2 years. Which is worse than the two year contract system with ETF due to the fact those fees are going to go way over $375.00. If we get rid of the contract system completely then phone manufacturers will be forced to lower prices due to the fact most people can not afford to buy their phone.

        • Dannie Aasted

          There are smart phones- Core Prime and Grand prime that are 139.99 and 189.99 last time I checked and I have a Stylo that I LOVE that was only 239.99.NO one has to pay 5 or 600 for a sell phone. You didnt have to buy it on payments. Your also not in contract with no extra fees to stop only paying or your phone. Why would you think you didnt have to finish paying for your phone? Yes I work for t-mobile (for honestly) but I am also a customer and a prior customer of Dumb and of Dumber

        • Isaiah

          You didn’t have to do a two year contract as well but people did two year contracts. The EIP is the new two year contract since it is tied to the service. Those phones will start adding up if they go with a family plan. All I am saying that T Mobile needs to stop advertising no contract in their advertising since that is not true.

        • Durandal_1707

          I bought my Nexus 6 outright, and am not on any contract.

        • Kim

          Well, as you said only people with EIP is like a contract according to your definition. So indeed there is that only for no contract so technically it is not false ad. Some ad say things like free and they dont even mention with purchase or doesn’t really even have a free option. For me, I see contract as if you breach you pay penatly but you dont, you just pay what you owe sooner, which is very reasonable, why would any business want to give you 0% finance if you not with them anymore? what is everyone take advantage of that imagine that. Contract in law is basically anything with terms and condition. In that sense anything you sign is a contract and even disclosures and the agreement where you agree to pay for this plan and they provide you when you pay. So no contract can be consider false to begin with. Any receipt or invoice is also consider a contract.

        • Kim

          ETF is a very different thing you pay for breaching and you dont get anything for it. But EIP you just pay what you owe and the phone is yours. When you see some ad say it is free (eg only lowest tier) doesn’t mean everything is or nothing is attach to make it free. If that is how you see things, you need to revisit reality. Unlimited is not unlimited for any carrier they cap you at some point. I dont really see people logical here.

    • Isaiah

      He felt like he was deceived due to all of T Mobile’s advertising of no contracts. He decided he wanted to move to another carrier and thought he could continue to make his monthly payments. We all agree that it was in the paper work he signed that the paperwork stated that the full balance left on the phone came due immediately when service is canceled. Since T Mobile ties their EIP payments into the service he is arguing that it is a 2 year contract system reinvented. Which I have to agree with but he is not going to get the phones for free since I am sure T Mobile will counter sue on that. But T Mobile is probably going to lose some money due to their false advertising.

      • VN

        So what, if he gets the phones for free after all the trouble. It’s good for everyone when some people force companies to be more honest. I feel like many like to defend dishonesty coming from companies, or could it be envy that someone, by any chance, may get the phones for free? Who knows.

    • Ramon Valdes

      Needed to be paid is one thing and be stuck with them after paid it’s another.. The fact that in other countries you can purchase devices from cell phone carriers and “They are your”, and in the US you purchase the devices from the carrier and it’s not yours, it’s theirs.. makes me sick! I am actually suing T-Mobile at the small claim court.. .as they deserved.. I’ll keep you posted

  • If it goes to court…

    Forever the ruling, if it goes to court, T-mobile will be okay….

    • Isaiah

      I think the guy will still be paying but I think T Mobile will have to pay something due to their false advertising. They will still be okay and they just will not advertise no contract any more in their ads.

    • Chilehead

      Who said they were doomed? lol

  • MO

    THe fact is that TMO does do false advertising. “Unused data rolls over” is what the tv ad says. No mention of minimum data requirements for unused data to roll over. So I assume that I’ve been cheated out of my roll over data for a long time. Pay for 2.5gb. Use 1.0gb lose 1.5 FB every month. Anyone else experience this?

  • Idiot Watcher

    It’s not false advertising. It’s the same advertising principles every other business uses. Bring the most beneficial feature to the forefront and minimize (yet, present) the least beneficial features to CYA! No foul play. Just another entitled jackass that did’nt read the fine print to cover his own ass! Read and comprehend everything you sign, PERIOD!