Washington State Attorney General Has A Bone To Pick With T-Mobile’s UNcarrier Offer

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Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson has laid down the gauntlet and ordered T-Mobile to alter its “deceptive advertising.” Ferguson has taken issue with a component of the new UNcarrier plan that involves consumers paying full price for their smartphone. Consumers who opt for the monthly installment plan will pay a monthly installment charge to cover the cost of the device. Customers who leave early will have to pay the full cost of the device, which Ferguson calls a “balloon payment” which can sometimes be higher than an early termination free. Ferguson says T-Mobile is failing to clarify this possible charge with customers properly.

“My office identified that T-Mobile was failing to disclose a critical component of their new plan to consumers, and we acted quickly to stop this practice and protect consumers across the country from harm,” Ferguson said in a statement issued on Thursday.

T-Mobile has cooperated with the AG office and signed a document titled an Assurance of Discontinuance (AOD). Under the terms of the AOD, T-Mobile will agree to:

  • Misrepresenting that customers can obtain wireless service and telephone equipment without restrictions; and
  • Failing to disclose that customers who terminate their T-Mobile wireless service before their device is paid off will have to pay the balance due on the phone at the time of cancellation.

Customers who purchased T-Mobile service and equipment between March 26th and April 25th can obtain a full refund for the equipment and cancel their plans without being required to pay the remaining balance owned on the device, so long as the customer cancels their service per the terms of the T-Mobile agreement. T-Mobile has agreed to contact customers who purchased equipment during the above dates to advise them of their right to cancel and get a refund.

T-Mobile has also agreed to a number of other terms per the AOD as listed below as well as agreeing to pay all attorneys’ fees and costs to the Attorney General’s office.

  • Not misrepresent customers’ true obligations under the terms of its contracts for the sale of service or equipment;
  • Make clear the consequences of cancelling T-Mobile service, including restrictions or limitations on cancellation; fees and costs; and early termination fees;
  • More clearly state in all advertisements the true cost of telephone equipment, including the requirement the customer carry a wireless service agreement for the life of the 24-month financing plan;
  • Instruct representatives to fully disclose obligations under the terms of its contracts, including developing a “Frequently Asked Questions” page; and
  • Train customer service representatives to comply with the settlement within 21 days of signing.

Washington State Attorney General

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  • 100

    I thought it was pretty obvious that you have to pay off the price of the phone… You don’t get it free if you cancel service lol

    • Kenan Jackson

      Yep, it’s been clearly stated in the terms and conditions. This AG must be up for reelection.

      I’m embarrassed to say I used to live in Seattle.

      • gpt2010

        I think Verizon and AT&T is backing up AG. LOL.

        • John

          I think that since WA legalized, this guy got stoned on some good sticky icky, and lost his f’ing mind.

    • gperez

      That is what I call heavy lobbying by someone, why don’t he tell carriers if the consumer pays for a device it must be unlock without a question and then I will feel he is doing something for us.

    • ssl48

      It is obvious, but they didn’t spell it out for people properly.

      • NinoBr0wn

        You are correct. They didn’t spell it out for the dummies.

    • UncleFan

      Nobody expects the phone for “free”, but T-Mobile has mislead people into thinking the EIP contract is solely tied to the payment plan for the phone, when IN FACT it is also tied to the wireless service plan. If T-Mo really wanted to be the “Uncarrier”, you should be able to change wireless service and continue making payments to T-Mobile on the phone until it’s paid off.

      After all the hate I’ve gotten on this site from pointing out how shady these so-called “Simple Choice” plans are, it’s nice to see government regulators finally putting their feet down on this nonsense!

      • fentonr

        Seems reasonable to me. T-Mobile sells wireless service, if you cancel your line and as such discontinue being a customer, any remaining balances are due. I closed a credit card the other day and knew full well I would need to pay the rest of the balance on the card in order to cancel. EIP is a service, if you don’t like the terms, but the Phone out right. Good to see the government spending money to hamper the only carrier to even try to do something good for customers in the last decade.

        • UncleFan

          But what if you don’t want to stop being a “customer”? What if you wanted to switch service to the $30 Monthly4G plan and keep paying the the $20 per month EIP until it’s paid off? Why does it have to be all or nothing?

          T-Mobile has clearly been encouraging employees to say that 24 month contract is only on the phone, and you can cancel service at any time “without penalty”, when in fact the contract is tied to BOTH the phone AND the service. If you have to pay $400 or something out of pocket just to switch service, versus the $200 ETF of the old plans, I’d call that a pretty big PENALTY, wouldn’t you?

        • thepanttherlady

          Paying for tangible goods you agreed to purchase isn’t a penalty.

        • UncleFan

          If you have to pay $300, $400 or more just to cancel your Simple Choice plan, it sure is going to FEEL like a penalty isn’t it, especially when the ETF on the old Classic plans was only $200 at worst?!

        • thepanttherlady

          Well now, that’s a horse of a different color isn’t it?

          It may “FEEL” like a penalty to have to pay for your phone in full but I’m of the mindset that if you can’t afford your purchases, don’t make ’em! ;)

          I am also not aware of any customers on the old Classic plans being forced over to the new Simple Choice plans and purchasing a device using the EIP. Those who moved did so by choice.

        • UncleFan

          Well, of course no one is holding a gun to their heads, but if they are making that “choice” based on sales pitches from reps who are deliberately leaving out critical information like the TRUE cost of cancelling service… well, I can see why regulators are raising their eyebrows.

        • thepanttherlady

          What?!!? Did we just almost agree to something else? LOL

          I agree with T-Mobile’s stance that device balances should be paid in full upon termination of services.

          I do not agree with the fact that this policy is not plastered everywhere and in a manner that customers have no option but to know of its existence.

        • $46209291

          There is no cost, you just pay off your debt early. You convert $400 in cash and $400 and debt into $0 cash and $0 debt. The net cost is $0.

        • UncleFan

          HAHAHA, that’s not how the typical consumer looks at it, and you know it. A $400 bill is a $400 bill. It doesn’t matter whether you call it an ETF or remaining balance or whatever – the purpose is EXACTLY the same: to cover the cost of the phone from T-Mobile’s point of view. The big difference is that the new deal is structured in such a way that it is now even more disadvantageous to the consumer to cancel service in the first year or so.

        • jay cartie

          Look let the consumers decide what they want if you don’t like T-Mobile you might wanna consider another carrier

        • Paul

          Lets sue all prepaid carriers lol, they are charging full for phone

        • chris

          Consumers don’t see it that way? No wonder people in this country are filing bankruptcy… it’s a freaking simple math.

        • JustinCrouch

          You need to take a chill pill. Your ranting and raving about stuff that isn’t what you think it is. An ETF is a fee. A FEE! With classic plans you are paying more then Value…I know this may be hard but watch this. If you keep paying minimum of $20 more on classic per month and you stay for a year. You will have paid $240 extra to be on classic.

          This is where it gets really juicy. You decide to cancel…you have now paid a total of $440 including ETF…then your phone..lets say 280 for the Galaxy S3 for a grand total of $720…

          At the end of the day, paying off your phone if and when you cancel is still cheaper then paying a fee.

          Now what were you saying about ETF being cheaper?

        • UncleFan

          “With classic plans you are paying more then Value…”

          Actually… that’s false. I can walk into Walmart TODAY and buy an HTC One for $148 and a contract for a $60/month Classic plan. The SAME phone on an EQUIVALENT plan from a T-Mobile corporate store would cost $99 upfront and $70/month ($50 service + $20 EIP). Let’s do the math over 24 months, shall we? The total cost of the Walmart phone is $148 + (24 * $60) or $1588. The total cost of the T-Mo Store phone is $99 + (24 * $70) or $1799.

          Now what were you saying about Classic being more expensive?

        • 5odead

          The HTC one cost $449 on their website. How is it only $148? Is it different at your local Walmart?

        • Guest

          Yes. The wireless kiosks at Walmart stores are managed separately from the Walmart website, so they have different prices. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the phones on the website are actually sold by Letstalk.com on Walmart’s behalf.

        • Dion Mac

          It must be talking about the One S. Just go away already.

        • UncleFan

          False. It’s the brand new HTC One. Do I need to take a photo of the price tag next time I go to my Walmart?

        • UncleFan

          Yes. The wireless kiosks at Walmart stores are managed separately from the Walmart website, so they have different prices. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the phones on the website are actually sold by Letstalk[dot]com on Walmart’s behalf.

        • Anti-Unclefan

          Please shut up F…Up looser. You already lost many points in your replies and all contradict themselves. I bet you will respond to this comment!….

        • thepanttherlady

          Someone posted here that they bought this yesterday for $150 at Walmart.

          http://www.tmonews.com/2013/04/best-buy-finally-puts-the-htc-one-up-for-sale-299-with-two-year-contract/

        • Moneyman

          First of all, the numbers here are inconsistent. The classic plan Unlimited talk text and 2gb of web was $79.99 (I’ve worked for T-Mobilefor 4 years now). Comparing that to the value plan of Unlimited talk text and 2.5GB would be the best comparison, which is $60 per month. Now let’s do the math with the HTC On: 24 X 80 = $1,920 + $148 = $2,068. The Value plan would be 24 X 60 = $1,440 + $580 = $2,020. The value plan would be cheaper plan by $48. In addition, if you are a new customer your activation fee is $35. If you are an existing customer, your upgrade fee is $18. As a new customer under the value plan, you are required to pay $10 for sim card. Now, let’s look at the situation if you were to cancel service early in one year of time. For the classic plan, it would be $960 + $148 + $200 = $1,308. The value plan price would be $60 X 12 = $720 + $580 (HTC One) = $1300. Value plan is still cheaper. If you decided to cancel after a year you would have to pay the remaining $240 left on the phone. The classic plan would be $200. The amount is not a big difference. The benefit of the value plan is the following: 1. If your phone is paid off, T-Mobile will unlock your phone so you can use it elsewhere (at&t, simple mobile….etc). 2. Your upfront cost is cheaper. As an example, here is Chicago you would pay $150.75 for an HTC One up front. At Walmart your cost would be $148 + $18 + Taxes = $180.52. As a result, you are paying more upfront and over time as well. 3. After your phone is paid off on the value plan after 2 years, you would save $20 in comparison to the classic plan. 4.Value plan allows you to trade-in your old handset, which is also giving you more value and an additional benefit over the classic plan. 5. Value plans include Mobile HOTSPOT feature for FREE!!!! With a classic plan, it is an additional $15 per month, in which the value plan can save you up to $360 over two years.

          I understand the complaint that T-Mobile wants you to pay for your phone after leaving the company, which is understandable due to the fact that they do not have to finance your phone for a plan with no contract. They are adding an additional benefit of the value plan. Cricket offers a similar plan and will ask for the FULL PRICE of the remaining balance once you leave their company. I agree that you are paying for an intangible asset that you are allowed to sell, trade-in (to several other companies besides T-Mobile)
          or use it at a different carrier (Example: at&t). With a termination fee, you are paying to leave a company, you are not getting anything from a termination but the privilege of leaving the company at an earlier time than agreed. In conclusion, I don’t understand how the classic plan beats the value plan.

          Marketing is suppose to lead the consumer into the store where the product is sold. It is our jobs as reps to explain the entire situation to the customer. As long as T-Mobile is being ethical in it’s general information about the plan, there is nothing that should be said about their marketing strategy.

        • UncleFan

          The reason your comparison works out differently is because you chose different plans than I did. The CHEAPEST plans on both Classic and Simple Choice are the plans that only include 500 MB of high speed data (in addition to unlimited talk and text). That plan is $60 on Classic and $50 on Simple Choice – HOWEVER you must add the $20 EIP for a nice smartphone to the Simple Choice plan to make the comparison valid. Note that the Classic plan is $10 CHEAPER per month, and that savings adds up to $240 over 2 years. That $240 is more than enough to cover the slightly higher upfront cost of the phone.

          Naturally, customers on a tight budget are going to be looking at the CHEAPEST plans available, so those are the plans you need to be talking about when you are trying to convince me T-Mobile is offering a good deal.

        • kristin

          i don’t think the 500 mb data is available when upgrading on classic to a smartphone. 2GB and up I believe which would make moneymans example correct.

        • UncleFan

          It’s available at dealers like Best Buy and Walmart. They can even upgrade you on old grandfathered plans.

        • moneyman

          When u sign up on walmart.com they make u add 2.5gb for $80. I dont see why store would be different.

        • guest

          Wrong again. If u do a upgrade u can not keep the $10.00 200mb options. U must choose a min of 2gb

        • moneyman

          When u go online they don’t. They make u add 2.5gb

        • guest

          Once again u are wrong and need to just shut up already. On a classic for $60.00 u get NO DATA. And if u do a upgrade u MUST add data on a classic plan. Min of 2gb. U can not do the $10 200mb any more. So that puts your bill at $80.00
          But you are one of those idiots who wants one of the hottest smart phones like the htc one for $184 from wallmart and wants NO data. I hate losers like u.
          Dont buy a smart phone if u can afford unlimited data.
          Stick to a flip phone.
          And if u say I am always near wi fi then u are lying and just use a dam computer because that means u are sitting at home.

        • Manny

          I literally laughed SO hard to this. Oh man. Stop lying and use the computer cause you are sitting at home!!! Oh man I just imagined somone saying that in a like a Katt Williams voice. Ohhh, this UncleFan is a troll who wants to sound smart. A nice charisma and way with words gets you so far until someone who has facts comes in. Now UncleFan looks dumb, and I had a great laugh.

        • ChilenoinUsa

          man…I would love to see you use an HTC One with 500mb of data. haha!

        • Santos Gomez

          bravo!

        • JustinCrouch

          Just stop lol. You cant reason with the unreasonable. I work for tmo too!

        • Magenta Fl

          Me Three ! And guest is right… These is one of the consumers who want everything without paying a cent. If you can’t pay for unlimited data like he’s stating then just get a flip phone with unlimited minutes and go to any free wi-fi spot you have around you and SAVE MONEY BECAUSE CLEARLY YOU NEED THAT PART OF YOUR BUDGET FOR SOME OTHER PRIORITIES !!!! T-Mobile is giving you options not putting a gun to your head stating you need to go for an unlimited data plan. It all depends on how you use your service. Don’t be calling me up when you have a 700.00 3 month arrears account stating you cannot make the payments. That is your wrong doing , not T-Mobile’s…. Again, we always give you options, we are here to assist you and make the most positive experience for you, not here to babysit you !!!! Have a great day !!!!

        • Mark

          OK, then let me ask this: what are the upgrade options available when going from a feature phone to a new feature phone? How many non-smartphones does TMo even still carry?

        • Amen!

        • I Shit on Uncle Sam

          Tell me you P.O.$. What are you getting for 60 dollars a month. You think you are right, you cant talk out of your ass. For 60 dollars you get 500 minutes, 100 mb of web. No PHP. Stop posting on this site and get a life. I seriously dislike people like you. Just throwing number with no significant meaning. Make your por point accross and throw everything out there.

        • guest

          U are wrong. A $60.00 classic plan is for unlimited talk and text. No data. It is $80.00 a month for 2gb.
          U must compare apples to apples. Classic is $80.00 and Value is $60.00 a month.
          And the taxes are less on Value.
          And u are not in a contract.

          And have fun buying anything at stupid walmart. Dont come to my store after they add $40.00 required data and want it to be $10.00 like on the value.
          And o can you transfer my contacts. Walmart could not. Or walmart changed the wrong sim card. Or walmart did not tell me this or that,.
          Have fun.

        • UncleFan

          Wow, you posted with a guest account so you could start lying right off the bat! The cheapest *current* Classic plan is $60/month and includes 500 MB data. You know where I found this information? RIGHT HERE on Tmonews! Scroll back through the last couple months of posts, and you will see a chart David posted that shows the current Classic plans.

        • tux dillard

          You act like putting a sims card in a brain surgery or transferring contacts really really lol I love android all you do is sync your contacts on your old phone then sign in on your new phone with the same Google account duh t mobile reps are dumb asses well so are verizions so are sprints I can’t speak on att lol you idiot working at a t mobile store you feel so special lol lame if you wanna continue this conversation email me bit*CH jdillard343434@gmail.com this goes to anyone

        • Corey

          You are one of those people , that forget at the end of the day Americans in general don’t read agreements, there’s no such thing as a penalty for being asked to pay for something a company is financing with no interest.. If you are under a contract stilll wait till your contract runs up and just pay off the eip or trade the device back in . You must dislike the fact companies have to make money to operate smh. google the definition of a consumer service business, see what u come up and still come back and tell me if this is all unfair.

        • JohnT-MobileRep

          I actually sell phones for T-mobile. There is absolutely, positively NO POSSIBLE WAY to construct a Classic plan with the same services as value plan (phone payment included) and have it turn out cheaper. NOT WITH THE SAME SERVICES.

        • UncleFan

          False. I can walk into Walmart today and buy a brand new HTC One for $148 upfront on a $60/month 2 year Classic contract. The same phone from a T-Mobile corporate store is $99 upfront on a $50/month Simple Choice plan with a $20/month EIP for 24 months. In both cases, the service plan offers unlimited voice/unlimited texting/500 MB data.

        • JohnT-MobileRep

          You do realize you are comparing PROMOTION on ONE PHONE to STANDARD price plans on ALL PHONES? Of course you do. Integrity isn’t your aim though.

          Now go jerk off into a dirty undershirt and order a pizza on mom’s card and then tell yourself life sucks because of t-mobile’s price plans, not because you’re an imbecile. Anyone reading your comments can tell you are an empty, empty, soul looking for anything to lash out at.

        • UncleFan

          LOL, you can’t dispute the truth, so you resort to personal attacks. Pitiful.

        • JohnT-MobileRep

          Did you dispute the FACT that you are using a PROMOTION at a THIRD PARTY RETAILER to compare to STANDARD rate plans? Or did you jump right to the insult an ignore that fact?

          Child. Thanks for writing my rebuttal for me.

        • UncleFan

          If you think T-Mobile plans sold through 3rd parties somehow “don’t count”, you are seriously DELUDED. Of course consumers are going to compare prices at all available outlets, whether it’s the T-Mobile corporate store or Best Buy or Walmart or Radio Shack or wherever.

          BTW, your argument is bogus anyway. The $60/month Classic plan is NOT a promotion – it’s the STANDARD rate for the current cheapest Classic plan. Walmart could raise the upfront price of the phone to $299 and it would STILL BE CHEAPER over 2 years ($1739) than the Simple Choice alternative ($1779)!

        • JohnT-MobileRep

          Ah thank you this reply is perfect. So when that PROMOTION ENDS, and everything is calculated based on the plans..which you claim are the topic of discussion.. Value will still be 10 bucks cheaper. :D

          Keep shouting charlatan! The dummies may follow you!!

        • I love u:)

        • tux dillard

          Classy rep get a real job quit living pay check to pay check lol

        • Ira Manuel

          http://www.tmonews.com/2013/04/best-buy-internal-doc-says-simple-choice-plans-coming-at-end-of-fiscal-years/

          Here is a link to what best buy is doing with 2 year contracts. Over 2 years you pay more with that plan versus T-Mobile Simple Choice.

        • peelabrownie

          @UncleFan:disqus Hey man thanks for wasting my time. I got hyped by your post and spent like an hour on the phone with Walmart. The 60$ month plan is for NON smartphones. For the ONE they set you up with a minimum of 2.5 gigs of data. Also the on contract price is 399.99 vs 99 for the phone up front.

          Not to mention I have a damn family plan. I currently play 100 for 4 lines unlimited everything. To upgrade to the new contract plans I need to pay, 100$ for first two lines and then 25 for adding other two lines and 20 on top for each line for data. Which is 230$ per month versus 100-140$ on the uncarrier plan. Paying over 100$ per month more is unnacceptable. Clearly you live in some dream world, step into reality no carrier would do that to themselves.

        • UncleFan

          #1) Who exactly did you call, and why are you calling anybody to begin with? Did you get the number off the Walmart website? The phone store on Walmart[dot]com is NOT the same thing as the physical kiosks in the stores! Walmart[dot]com is a horrible rip-off run by Letstalk[dot]com under Walmart’s name.

          #2) There is NO special $60 plan that’s just for feature phones! There is ONLY ONE $60 (Unl/Unl/500MB) plan, it is the STANDARD Classic plan for resellers like Walmart and Best Buy, and it applies to ALL phones including smartphones. If ANY rep tells you otherwise, he is LYING in order to upsell you to a more expensive plan!

          #3) The new Simple Choice plans are better deals on family plans – I never said otherwise. It’s only on the lowest single line plans that Classic works out better.

          Unfortunately, there is often a lot of cheating bullshit by quota-crazy store managers whenever a hot new phone comes out. T-Mobile stores, for example, have been busted on several occasions for trying to force people to buy case-and-cable bundles.

          Bottom line: if you want the $148 deal, you HAVE to go down to an actual Walmart store, you cannot do it over the phone or online! You shouldn’t have any trouble getting the correct plan if you go down to the store in person. If you are worried about getting the right plan, activate it on a blank microSIM first, and THEN upgrade that line with the phone you want.

        • Ira Manuel

          “T-Mobile stores, for example, have been busted on several occasions for trying to force people to buy case-and-cable bundles.” Just wanted to comment on what you said here. NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY ANYTHING. If customers need car chargers and extra cables or accessories they are available to them at a cost. T-Mobile employees do not grab your credit card or cash and force you to buy anything, it is the choice of the customer. This is my last comment to everything you have posted on here in regards to this. Good Luck.

        • Dion Mac

          In so many words, I just said the same thing to her or it… Guess I should have scrolls down first.

        • Magenta Fl

          Uncle Fan, It seems like you only want to lay down only a negative standpoint for our cosumers. I’ll lay the smack down pretty easy for you. If you go to a Tmobile Store and buy the best Iphone 5 model, that’s the one we have. You can pick a Simple Choice Plan within your budget and have a CHOICE. Either pay full for the equipment and have it unlocked since day one, or you can pay a simple monthly plan of $ 20.00, plus the monthly cost of your plan. Now, if you decide that The Magenta Network it’s not for you and you want to cancel the Service you also have two options. You can cancel your service and pay the amount remainin of the phone, which let’s say it’s your example, $400.00 , and take your equipment to another carrier that is not GSM and pay more a month than you would pay with us, or go to another carrier and buy another iPhone 5 or any other equipment and get hooked with a 2 year contract. If you do not pay your equipment at the time of cancelation is pretty clear what happens,

        • Magenta Fl

          Your equipment will remained locked up until you pay your equipment in full and then you can use it on the other mayor carriers you could use it with or small carriers. NO ETF PENALTY … If you were under contract like on a CLASSIC plan, like you stated, You would need to pay the amount of your balance of whatever you used that month, plus the $400.00 of the equipment, plus $200.00 dollars of ETF charges. So it’s pretty clear, not only the the SIMPLE CHOICE PLANS you are saving money on the purchase of your new equipment, but also saving money without a contract. We are not having restrictions on the EIP or your monthly service, is plain, basic, upfront and focused related on us helping that customer , because we at T-Mobile are consumers also…. Enough Said…. Have a good day and thanks for choosing T-Mobile where we truly value your service and Loyalty…

        • you focus on one thing, like you’re going to win something. there’s nothing to gain. okay let’s go back to the previous plans, its no secret the cost of the plans are more expensive especially if you have 4 or 5 lines. so if a year past you paid it all in the services then you got hit with the EFT fee, its the same cost for the customer its just subject differently. you dont like the idea that you’re responsible for your equipment expense and tmobile will provide the service at a responsible rate without a contract and without upgrade and activation fees. NO ONE IS FORCING you get sign up with EIP25.

        • UncleFan

          “NO ONE IS FORCING you get sign up with EIP25”

          No, but without the EIP, a postpaid account is absolutely worthless. If you don’t need the phone financed/subsidized, prepaid is a MUCH cheaper option for many usage scenarios. Once you admit that the majority of people these days want expensive smartphones but few are willing/able to buy them at full price upfront, then you see that T-Mobile’s Simple Choice plans are only worthy of consideration with the EIP included. When you include the EIP, T-Mobile’s plans don’t look so great anymore because you notice a couple things: 1) The cheapest Simple Choice plan costs more than the cheapest Classic plan; 2) The cheapest Simple Choice plan costs more than AT&T’s cheapest postpaid plan. Why are the Simple Choice plans so expensive? Because T-Mobile now forces you to get texting and they force you to get unlimited voice, that’s why.

          I don’t have a problem with the EIP in principle… in fact, I think it’s a great idea! My problem is with the fact that T-Mobile designed their new plans poorly. As a result, the budget-minded consumer does not realize the savings he was hoping for: postpaid service with T-Mobile costs more than ever to someone only interested in the lowest rung of service plans.

          The fact that you can’t keep the EIP going after you cancel service means that you are still signing a 24 month contract that is tied to the service, not just the phone. From the point of view of THE CUSTOMER, this new system is not really an improvement over the old postpaid subsidy, and in the case of cancellations that occur early in the EIP period, it can be a lot WORSE.

        • Paul

          Your not paying $300 or $400 to cancel lol. when you spend 650 on a iphone from apple are you paying apple a $300 or $400 cancellation fee LOL

        • chris

          No, ETF on plans before starts at $350 and gradually goes down til your contract is up. It’s not a flat fee of $200. So let’s say you signed up for a classic plan and decides to cancel it after a month. You paid $199 or more depending on the phone you selected. And pay off $350 on etf. I have no idea where you are getting the idea that customers are getting ripped off today.

        • UncleFan

          I never said anything about a flat fee. I signed a 2 year contract for a classic plan a few months ago, and my etf is only 200 bucks, and yes it gets prorated over time. At&t and Verizon are the ones with $350 etfs!

        • sam

          It’s all or nothing because there is a credit check to give you installments. If you want the cheaper prepaid plane, then pay upfront for the phone. Why do you want all FOR nothing?

        • UncleFan

          I don’t want anything for nothing. Seeing as how I had to pass a credit check to get the installment plan in the first place, why can’t I just keep making the $20 monthly payments regardless of the status of the wireless service on that line?

        • Gordo

          T-Mobile is not a financing company. They do not want to have a separate billing system for people who want to continue paying for a phone when they do not use their network. EIP is a benefit for signing up for a post-paid account and if you want to leave their network, guess what? You lose that benefit. I dont know how this can be a shock to or a misrepresentation of T-Mobs advertising. Understand what T-Mobile is in the business of doing and this policy might become more clear.

        • guest

          Someone already made a good point. When u cancel a credit card the balance due must be paid in full.

          How is this any different.

          Why would a non customers still be making 0% apr payment on a phone? The EIP is not even taxed on your bill.

          And is probably because of all the other dead beats who screw tmobile and never pay. Probably like Uncle Fan. Loser.

        • Andromedo

          When you cancel a credit card, your original terms stay intact and you can keep making the minimum payment.

          The whole thing is not due immediately when you close the card out.

        • sean

          I’m pretty sure you can’t request to cancel a credit card with a balance…. now if the bank closes your account with a balance because of non payment…i think you are able to continue paying on the closed account.

        • sean

          you can keep making payments….it’s called a credit card…without knowing, you do want something for nothing…Its like asking a complete stranger for $480 today…and they are getting $480 paid back over 24 months. shitty deal for that person

        • Magenta Fl

          Here we go agin Uncle Sam… I believe everybody here has answered all of the questionss you had. The new EIP plan works like people have been saying up there on the comments. It works like a Credit Card but without the hidden fees or ARP %… I think I read correctly and NO PREPAID COMPANY WITH A PREPAID SERVICE WILL ATTACH OR ASK FOR YOUR SOCIAL BECAUSE IS A PREPAID SERVICE. SImple Choice plans are not prepaid plans … Look, we hear our consumers, we understood what they dislike and love about T-Mobile or any other Carrier. WE ARE PUTTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT. We are giving the customers what they want on an approchable price… You make a MINIMUM payment and our promise to you is that your phone will be cheaper here and you will be saving money with you monthly plan.

        • Magenta Fl

          If this was not true, then why AT&T hasn’t come up with a solution, better idea or knocking on our door saying you are full of it . On the contrary, They Only Said, and I quote : “Whatever”

          Same case with Verizon, they didn’t do that… Instead, they told their customers : And I quote : “You want a new equipment at a discounted price ? No problem… We just thought that you should not that now policies have changed, and If you want this type of offer you will need to comply with your full 24 month contract plus pay and upgrading fee of $35.00 and we’ll still keep you on the same expensive plan that you have , or if that plan is a grandfathered plan already, we will give you that new equipment, sure no problem, but you’ll need to change to the newer plans and pay us a lot more !!!! hmmmm, that’s not good business in my book…

        • UncleFan

          Yeah, I understand perfectly how the EIP works. What I’m saying (and what you fail to understand) is this: THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON T-MOBILE CAN’T RUN THE CREDIT CHECK FOR PREPAID CUSTOMERS WHO REQUEST AN EIP! They simply choose not to offer this particular service.

          Alternately, T-Mobile could sidestep this issue by simply offering EQUIVALENT post-paid plans that match the prepaid plans. For example, why can’t they offer a $30/month 100 minute + 5 GB data plan on the post-paid side? I’ll tell you why… because T-Mobile is GREEDY, and all this “Uncarrier” stuff is just a MARKETING GIMMICK designed to trick people into signing 2 year agreements on overpriced postpaid plans because they can’t reduce the upfront cost of the phone without the EIP!

        • $46209291

          I don’t disagree that that’s the way it should be. The problem is that people who are stupid enough to complain about having to pay off their phones, are stupid enough to be pissed off that they are still getting $20/month bills from T-mobile after moving to another carrier, and they are going to go whining to political whores like WA AG Ferguson about it, and T-mobile is going to be attacked.

          If you like your monthly payments, you can go to the bank and get financed for a personal loan, pay off your T-mobile loan, and make $20 monthly payments to the bank.

        • UncleFan

          “If you like your monthly payments, you can go to the bank and get financed for a personal loan, pay off your T-mobile loan, and make $20 monthly payments to the bank.”

          I agree with this in theory – however, I strongly suspect *in practice* that it would be much more difficult for many, many customers these days to get a $600 unsecured loan from a bank, even in the form of an credit card. Even though all wireless carriers do some kind of credit check before providing certain service, I’ve always been under the impression that they are more lenient than banks.

        • $46209291

          You can also sell your phone on craigslist and pay off the loan. It’s not rocket surgery. Either way, asking someone to pay off their debts is not a penalty in itself.

        • Chris

          Why does T-Mobile have to let you make your monthly payments on the phone if you cancel service?? If you think this is “shady” then be happy that it’s interest free financing. If I was T-Mobile I wouldnt let you just walk away and say yea it’s ok pay me later or just keep paying me 20 a month like you have been.. Hell NO! Buisness is business pay me what you owe me before you leave.. It’s quite simple.

        • UncleFan

          T-Mobile could easily do what Verizon did: add a $2/month “finance fee” to the installment plan to insure they make a bit of money no matter what. Problem solved.

          http://support[dot]verizonwireless[dot]com/faqs/Features%20and%20Optional%20Services/device-installment-plan%5Bdot%5Dhtml

        • Chris

          And your right i’m sure they can but my question is why should they?

        • Adrayven

          Eh? I didn’t have to pay off EIP when I switched… what you talking about? It’s only if you leave completely. /confused?

        • Dion Mac

          Switching to prepaid WAS, IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE canceling service. They are two totally different operating entities.

          Secondly, for example the iphone with EIP is $99 and the plans(which you are not considering) are cheaper than both T-Mobile previously had and what the other three carriers have now. So your complaining that after three months, then you cancel having to pay $400+ for the remaining EIP, well originally you would have paid 199+ for the phone and in three months are a different of more than a hundred dollars and have a $200 ETF.

          Now if you cant see the value that is ABSOLUTELY your FAULT! What Washington is doing is terrible and a waste of money and energy.

        • Dion Mac

          Do you agree with this ^^^ @thepanttherlady:disqus ???

        • thepanttherlady

          Sorry for not responding last night, I returned my Z10 and didn’t get home till late.

          After thinking about this for a bit here’s what I came up with:

          I believe the idea that EIP’s aren’t extended to Monthly4G customers is because there is no credit check and no SS # is required for service, correct? If a customer is moving from a Value or Simple Choice plan, T-Mobile has already gotten the customer’s SS# and run a credit check. After all, the customer is already utilizing an EIP option. Why then, can’t or doesn’t T-Mobile add a blurb to the device agreement that as long as Monthly4G service is active and being paid for then the EIP payments can continue being paid as agreed?

          I’ve never had Monthly4G service so my thoughts are based on the assumption that the customer is able to port their # over to this service. With this assumption T-Mobile should be able to track the information.

          If a customer has to get a whole new phone # to move then all bets are off. I don’t see how T-Mobile would be able to track anything. Service is then considered canceled.

        • true story

          I am a T-Mobile employee. You are talking out of your ahole. We let customers know. They have a choice. You can pay the phone in 24 payments or you can just pay the phone off when ever you like. No interest no penalty. If customer wajts to pay phone off in 3-4 months they can. Also your forgetting the trade in offer. Which goes t9wRss the phone.

        • jdubtrey

          The $30 plan is a prepaid plan and (as far as I know) is not eligible for the EIP.

          The interest free financing is a benefit of being on a postpaid plan. If you are not on a postpaid plan, you aren’t eligible. If you are, but then leave, you owe the balance.

          I don’t find anything deceptive about that. Why would TMo finance phones that were on TMo for a month but ended up on Straight talk?

        • UncleFan

          “Why would TMo finance phones that were on TMo for a month but ended up on Straight talk?”

          The question you *should* be asking is why aren’t T-Mobile’s Simple Choice plans competitive with prepaid/MVNO plans like Straight Talk? Now that device subsidies have been stripped out of the service plan, shouldn’t the price of the service plans be cheap like prepaid plans? Except they are not cheap – in fact, they are more expensive than Classic/Even More plans used to be back when you weren’t forced to pay for unlimited voice and a texting plan.

          If T-Mobile had priced the Simple Choice plans correctly AND provided options for low voice/text usage, T-Mobile wouldn’t even have anything to worry about because they would be the indisputable value leader. Instead they decided to jack up the price of the cheaper post-paid plans and then tried to trick everybody by hiding the device cost inside the EIP.

        • guest

          U are so dumb. U know how crappy the internet speed it on Straight talk and other crappy resellers. Thats why is so cheap. And the new family plans are great. 3rd, 4th and 5th lines for ONLY $10.00 and that is for Unlimted talk text and web.

          It beats those crappy MVNO.

        • Ira Manuel

          Thank you Jdubtrey for understanding this :-D

        • Christian Saavedra

          The amount of money you’ll spend more each month with Verizon and Att plus their terminationfee will equal more than

        • Anonymous

          As a T-Mobile employee I can honestly say we were never encouraged to do anything but be honest with our customers. We even have posters in our break rooms telling us to put ourselves in our customers shoes.

          P.S. monthly 4g plans are a prepaid service that require you to pay the retail cost of the phone up front so it’s the same thing as paying off your E.I.P. Prepaids aren’t attached to socials so If we did an E.I.P on prepaid accounts people could easily steal the phones without any consequences.
          Also, if you go to any other carrier and buy a smartphone you’ll pay more for the phone up front, more for the plan, activation fees, other hidden charges and an ETF. Personally I think it’s deceptive that other carriers do that.

        • anonymoud

          the “contract” is not attached to the service just the phone. Someone mentioned a credit card in one of the other posts and that’s pretty much what it is. It’s like putting your phone on a credit card minus the interest/financing charge. Having a credit card is not a contract so I don’t see how this would be any different.

        • UncleFan

          “Prepaids aren’t attached to socials…”

          Whose fault is that? T-Mobile’s system works the way it does because that’s how THEY designed it to work. If T-Mobile wanted to offer EIP to prepaid customers, they could modify the system in T-Mobile stores to run credit checks on those customers. Instead, T-Mobile decided to use the EIP as leverage to twist peoples arms to get them on overpriced post-paid accounts… just exactly how they used the subsidized Classic plans in the past.

        • Manny

          After reading everything you posted… You sound dumb. So here are your options…

          Stop paying attention to everything T-Mobile does. Or get over it.
          You made my day though. The way you talk you’d think you knew someone in corporate… but instead you are just a random avatar on a blog site crying to people which wouldn’t make any difference. Just make your agenda look good and your ego feel nice and full.

          Must be nice not having anything else to do all day but complain about T-Mobile’s horrible business practices. I suggest doing something else, like going to Verizon or ATT and maybe they can fill that void in your heart you desperately are longing to fill.

        • conservative_motorcyclist

          In this scenario, you’re switching from POSTPAID TO PREPAID. Since you are cancelling your postpaid account, the remainder of the phone’s balance is due.

          If I go purchase a prepaid device at Walmart, they make me pay the full price for the device before leaving with it. It’s the same idea.

        • mainevalues

          im just wondering how you know about the info given to t-mobile employees, there is no contract for services there is no contract for a handset , there is an agreement for payment for a device puchase and that agreement gives you many options for paying for the handset which is 24 months with the options to pay off early or buy full price at time of purchase

        • First, Its not a penalty! you get a phone on payment plan, when you cancel, pay the whole balance. second you’re not going to get post paid benefits with prepaid for any company, out of the question. Its called Equipment Installment Plan or EIP, not credit not a separate tension, it has VERY specific details in the terms on how one can get the phone in payments. This is absolutely transparent! NO phone discounts and No contract. You buy the phone two ways, upfront or if allowed due to credit check, split across your bill with EIP25 method.

          If someone just thought they would get 2 lines on EIP for two Samsung GS4 with only a down payment and cancel the account 30 days later and think their not going to pay a dime for the EIP, they’re plain foolish.

          T Mobile as a company does not encourage employees to say this, this is not fact, please provide proof. EIP25 is 25 payments, again its just payments. its not that hard to understand. One could easily get a credit from the phone recovery program and get 5 months wiped, or pay more at anytime. In the end, its just another payment system. &one more reason for you to cry and complain about how much you dislike tmobile.

        • when you pay an ETF, you get nothing. When you pay off your phone, you get a phone. So which one is really better? Id say the paying money, and actually keeping what you bought instead of buying the right to break a contract you should of never had to sign in the first place.

        • UncleFan

          Say what? I’ve always been able to keep the phone after paying the ETF. The only time you have to return the phone is if you cancel in the first couple months or something.

        • And its technically “your phone” as soon as you sign the contract. Remember that “discounted price” you pay upfront??? So then, when you pay an ETF, what are you getting? Let me answer that for you since you dont seem to be following along…NOTHING, except the right to break a contract early. Its obvious im talking to someone that cant comprehend simple business ideas or basic numbers, so Im going to stop while im ahead.

        • UncleFan

          Lol, you have just identified yourself as an idiot. Why do you think carriers charge an etf? So they can recoup the cost of the phone subsidy! You obviously do not know how the wireless business works.

        • Ira Manuel

          Also to comment on this comment no wireless carriers make money off phones, and an ETF barely covers the cost of the phone. Example: Galaxy S III costs 550$ full retail, 150$ on old classic plan new 2 year contract that doesn’t exist anymore, ETF cost within year and half 200$. So total you are paying 350$ for the phone if you were to cancel out, T-Mobile loses 200$.

        • Dion Mac

          Great point. At first I got the point of what @UncleFan:disqus was saying, however before I even read your comment I didn’t think it was right. Just like if you finance a car thru a dealership… You can only go late so many days before they cut ties with you and you have to pay the entire balance of the car if you want to keep it… no more payment options for you. Same thing here.

          The only people I think would have a problem with how T-Mobile does their EIP are crooks! Point blank!!!

        • Guest

          Im not sure why disquise posted my comment like that, but that is not the works of me!

      • JustinCrouch

        You must work for AT&T

        • Dion Mac

          It does!

      • TBN27

        But it isn’t tied to the plan. You have the opt to pay it off separately. When I go on my T-Mobile, it shows the rip balance and the option to pay it off.

        • UncleFan

          You only have that option when you still have an active wireless service line. Turn off that line, and T-Mobile will demand that you pay the FULL balance on the EIP immediately. Go ahead and try it if you don’t believe me! :)

        • TBN27

          But that is common sense….

        • UncleFan wrong

          That’s not true

      • TeamMagenta

        I dont usually post anything. I know for a fact if you leave T-mobile. You can still arrange to make monthly payments on the device. Next time please don’t write anything if you don’t have the right information.

        • thepanttherlady

          In that I can only find a link on T-Mobile stating the opposite would you please post a link to that policy?

          https://t-mobile.jive-mobile.com/#jive-document?content=%2Fapi%2Fcore%2Fv2%2Fdocuments%2F1674

          Thank you!

        • teammagenta

          I called care and transferred my single line to my family amd closed the account. I asked about paying off the phone. The CSR took my debit Info and they take tue 20 dollar payment every month. So idk what your talking about.

      • mmunson

        I would like to see it say the financing is free if you stay with the postpaid t-mobile service, if not the financing is 9.99%. Good way to have it both ways.

      • superg05

        YES i could agree to this if the price of the phone was marked up like rent-a-center other than that no cause the phone are being sold at actual price with no mark up for t-mobile customers not for some @ss that thinks they can get a phone at a discount and use it on at&t while making payments t-mobile gets no money from that model at all unlike retailers and other carriers they make no money off the handsets

      • conservative_motorcyclist

        uumm…you can change from any “Simple Choice” plan to any “Simple Choice” plan at will without affecting your EIP…you can’t change from postpaid to prepaid or another carrier until you pay off the device.

        If you want to switch “early” you buy out the remainder of the device and make the switch. There are NO CONTRACTS FOR SERVICE!!!

        All T-Mobile is doing is financing your headset at 0% down over 24 months. It’s just like if I go to Home Depot and buy a $500 refrigerator. I will get 12 months to pay it off at 0% interest. If I want to pay it off in 6, fine. There are no penalties. if I want to cancel my Home Depot account 6 months into paying of the fridge, I am responsible for paying off the remaining balance of the fridge at the time I cancel my line of credit.

      • Chris

        You seriously feel that leaving the service and paying for the rest of the phone in monthly installments is right? WOW! Not me! Do you even reaize how bad of a business move in “reality” that would be? T-Mobile would have to chase down their money because i’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t continue to pay for it. I believe that paying for the phone in full if you decided to leave is the best way to go about it.

      • $46209291

        Of course if they did that, then people would be complaining to the AG that they are still getting a T-mobile bills after switching to another carrier.

        • UncleFan

          Well if that happened, it would probably be because the T-Mobile rep did a poor job of explaining to the customer what would happen if they cancelled service before the EIP was paid off.

        • $46209291

          That’s exactly my point. Either way, the idiots would blame T-mobile for not explaining it properly, not themselves for being stupid and expecting the phone to be magically paid off just because they cancelled the service contract.

      • Ira Manuel

        Hello,
        I work for T-Mobile and we have in no way “MISLED” the customers. It is policy for T-Mobile Employees to explain the EIP payment system to all customers. There is NO contract. You have 2 choices, pay the phone in full up front, or make a down payment. If you cancel then we bill the customers the remaining amount. Its pretty simple and straight forward. When you cancel anything anywhere you are required to pay off any “balance or debt” owed. Super basic. If you do not understand how this works, you have more problems then your phone plan.

        • UncleFan

          If the EIP isn’t a contract, why does T-Mobile require an e-signature when you buy one online?

          http://support[dot]t-mobile[dot]com/docs/DOC-1675

          Is the EIP legally binding? Does it have terms and conditions? Do you have to sign something or verbally agree to something to get it? If you fail to pay it off according the terms, could you be subject to legal action by T-Mobile?

          It’s a contract. Your manager may have brainwashed you into calling it an “agreement” or whatever, but it’s a contract.

        • Ira Manuel

          Hello Again,
          The EIP is not a contract. The EIP is something that customers must agree to or else they cannot do the payment plan. You have to sign and verbally agree to have the payment plan (seeing as how you are financing the phone over 24 months with NO interest). If you fail to pay off the remaining balance of your phone IF you cancel service prior to 24 months your bill will do what any other bill does and that is go to collections after a period of time. There is no contract with T-Mobile anymore. Also customers DO NOT have to purchase our phones, they can get a phone they can get an unlocked phone and use it for no extra fee.

        • UncleFan

          “You have to sign and verbally agree to have the payment plan…”

          That’s a contract. It may have different terms and may be structured differently than the contract you sign for a Classic plan, but it’s still a contract. The AG knows it, and T-Mobile’s lawyers know it, too… that’s why the fiasco described in the article occurred in the first place. T-Mobile’s advertising does not reflect the legal reality of what they are actually offering their customers. The AG demanded that T-Mobile stop misleading consumers and T-Mobile said “OK”.

        • Ira Manuel

          Hello,
          Except that it is not a contract, because you can pay for the rest of the phone at anytime with no penalty. A “contract” would give you no option to pay it off early and also would penalize you for doing so. You can define contract how you want. We do not have one. Period.

        • guest

          You do not seem to understand the actual definition of the word “contract”.

        • Ira Manuel

          Yeah UncleFan does not understand the word “Contract”.

        • Ira Manuel

          There is not “contract”. Period. If it was a contract on EIP, you would not be able to pay off the device early with no penalty. Thus why it is not a contact. You can pay off the device early and cancel with no fee whatsoever. Your using the word “contract” incorrectly in this situation. Also like i said earlier all customers know what happens if they cancel early. You obviously would be billed the remaining amount of the phone on your final bill. T-Mobile is not “mis-leading” anyone as much as you think they are. Customers are told exactly how it is. If you are being misled by this that is your own fault for not understanding how the system works and what you can and cannot do about it. “Contracts” do not exist with T-Mobile anymore. THAT is 100%. Regardless of how you look at EIP. Even if you have EIP on your account, you just pay off the phone and when you cancel you just pay your final bill. Pretty straight forward.

        • UncleFan

          “If it was a contract on EIP, you would not be able to pay off the device early with no penalty.”

          Ridiculous. The reason you can pay off the device early is because that’s how the TERMS of the EIP were written by T-Mobile’s lawyers. It’s a contract. You can call it whatever you want, but in a court of law, the EIP “agreement” would be recognized as a CONTRACT between two parties: T-Mobile and the customer.

      • LMAO wow! Wait a min…so you think its a good business practice to continue to finance a former customer for a phone that they no longer have service for? lol sweetie, T-Mobile is in the WIRELESS service business…not phone business. If the customer does not have service with T-Mobile anymore, it would be reasonable to me that T-Mobile would not want to finance their device interest free anymore…

    • Zac

      Their advertising makes everything seem much more simple than it actually is. I think its great that people are making a stand for the consumer in this case, as TMo actually has become LESS consumer friendly in the last month and not MORE.

      • fentonr

        I really fail to understand this argument. Its not the first time I’ve heard it and I’m sure it won’t be the last…I just don’t get it. If T-Mobile has such bad practices, then go to Verizon. They’re happy to give you a discount and then bend you over for the next two years. I’ll stick with T-Mobile, thanks.

        • Anonymous

          HAHAHAHAHA!!!! So true

    • ssl48

      The reason why it’s a problem is because it wasn’t spelled out properly for consumers. Why can’t you continue to make the monthly payments, wasn’t that the agreement? I haven’t read the terms but it seems deceptive to me.

      • fentonr

        And that’s the problem. Reps explain it (usually) fine and customers sign the agreement. If customers fail to read it…who’s fault is that?

        • Dakota

          Reps explain it fine?

        • fentonr

          In my experience, If that has not been yours, go to a store with better reps.

        • fentonr

          Those I’ve met do. Its hardly the reps fault if they’re talking to a rock. Also, I said usually, yes, there are bad reps out there. That is unavailable when you’re operating on that scale.

      • MrNov25

        Not really it gets the people in the door but the reps explain it so its understood. Plus if you sign something without understanding that’s your fault.

    • Dakota

      Actually it’s not. Many think it’s like a lease and they just return the phone when they’re done cuz there’s no contract. Read a lot of those types of comments. And often people think the phone price is only 99..sometimes in the past it was advertised that way with tiny print about the payments…and while nit T-Mobile’s fault, I saw many headlines in stories on other sites saying iohone5 or HTC etc for 99…You guys have to realize you are much more educated about T-Mobile and the cellphone industry in general. You’d be surprised at how little the average consumer knows

    • Joe

      Wow, TMo is worse than VZW with their “unlimited” and “contract free” service…

    • John

      It’s Washington, they legalized, he’s stoned.

    • Dion Mac

      **ATTENTION** Before you scroll down, be aware that UncleFan is on a rampage and is reeking havoc on this post. To start, its name is Uncle something which would indicate a male but the profile pic is of a female with blue hair AND its profile states trouble is coming. So it seems, thru its comments, that it is here to cause trouble and pi$s people off. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

    • mdosu

      Wierd, I usually buy a car and a house with downpayments, then stop payments and end up with a pretty sweet Ferrari and 10-bedroom mansion for like $100k. This uncarrier is just a rip off…

  • bisayan

    smh..maybe attorney general is att or verizon customer lol.

    • Chris Drudge

      No, but the AG is working for the citizens of his state. If the EIP required subscribers to continue service while the phone was being paid off, the EIP agreement should have stated so. If the entire remaining balance becomes immediately due upon termination of the contract, then the EIP agreement should have stated so.

      This isn’t T-Mobiles first rodeo and these types of issues should have been caught long before the promotion was released.

      • just pay etf

        agreed. couple years ago, most plans were same price as current value plans, and to end the contract with a MUTUALLY AGREED ETF means just that, mutually agree that you don’t owe anything after $200etf. Current “simple” plans hide this fact, and employees are instructed to tell you they can’t sell you a phone if you’re asking about cancellation. Why do the employees insist on not answering the simple cancellation questions?

      • Mike

        I dont care what the EIP says. Its common sense you need to pay off the phone if you want to leave. period.

        • UncleFan

          Sure, but why can’t you just keep making payments on the phone after you’ve cancelled service? Because T-Mobile LIED, and kept the contract tied to a 2-year term of service, that’s why!

        • fentonr

          What contract? Also, if you pay it off early, by making extra monthly payments for example, there is no 2 year anything. What are you on about?

        • UncleFan

          Haven’t you heard of the EIP, or “Equipment Installment Plan”? It has a term of 24 months (aka 2 years) and REQUIRES that you pass a credit check AND sign a contract.

        • fentonr

          I’m aware of what EIP is, I’m a dealer. I get how it works and maybe that is why I’m not confused. Whatever the case, contract implies, in this case, an agreement for a set length of time. I could sign up for service tomorrow and pay for the rest of the phone over the next three months or I could take five months, or the full 24. The agreement doesn’t specify time, it specifies an amount, which default to 24 if you don’t pay differently. So, let me be clear and concise EIP is not a fixed term of 24 months, that’s the maximum if you fail to pay it off faster. You can pay any amount at any time, just like a credit card. Also like a credit card, if you end your relationship with the company, the rest of the balance is due.
          Seems simple and straightforward to me. If you don’t think so, you’re entitled to that opinion I suppose. I just don’t get why you stay with a carrier you think is “shady”.

        • UncleFan

          “if you end your relationship with the company, the rest of the balance is due.”

          THIS is the shady part, the part you keep glossing over. What if you don’t want to end your relationship with T-Mobile, what if you want to keep making payments as specified by the EIP until the phone is paid off? Well, it turns out the only way you can keep the EIP is to keep the wireless service plan, which you were told you could cancel at any time without penalty. Forced payment of the EIP balance at once instead of spread out over 24 months as agreed sure sounds like a penalty to me!

        • kalel33

          fentonr stated: “Also like a credit card, if you end your relationship with the company, the rest of the balance is due.”

          This is incorrect. You can keep making minimum payments on a credit card after you cancel the card. Every person who’s had a credit card and canceled knows that. So that’s a horrible analogy.

        • fentonr

          Ok, that may be. I’ve always been asked to pay the remaining balance. There is a difference though. The credit card issuer is charging interest. I think it would be completely resonable for T-Mobile to allow you to keep making payments but start charging you interest at say, 18% (high, but not abnormal for such loans) if you decided to stop being their customer. They won’t because people won’t get that either and will be even more pissed.

        • JustinCrouch

          Your not signing a contract. Your thinking the 2 are one in the same. They are not. You’re agreeing to pay for your phone. If you leave, you should have to pay for the phone.

          With that said, ALL my customers know, if they cancel, they HAVE to pay for the phone at that time.

          Your arguing a losing point.

        • UncleFan

          Now you are just outright lying. You don’t think the customer has to sign a contract of some kind before they can walk out of a store with an EIP financed smartphone?

          Your T-Mo manager may have trained you to call it an “agreement” or whatever, but that doesn’t change the legal reality that the terms of the EIP is spelled out in a CONTRACT.

        • UncleNoFan

          If you cancelled your contract, why is tmo obligated to keep the term of the contract and let you keep paying installment. If I lend some money to a friend and he no longer wants to be my friend, you think I want to let him pay back my money in installment ? What do you think the common sense thing a person would do ?

        • UncleFan

          As you say, they aren’t obligated. I’m well aware of the terms of the contract. My point is that the terms of the EIP contract SUCK from the point of view of the consumer. THAT’S why T-Mo reps and astroturfing shills don’t like to talk about what happens when you cancel a Simple Choice plan with an EIP. The cost is HORRIBLE in the first year, especially compared to the ETF on a comparable Classic plan.

        • Jeffrey Curry

          Bath salts

        • Dakota

          Yes you have to pay phone but it’s not obvious you have to pay the remaining balance all at once instead of continuing monthly payments. I realize a lot of you think tmobile can do nothing wrong buy you shouldn’t jump on everyone with a different opinion. The story says Tmobile has agreed to sign documents admitting to wrongdoing and change some of their actions..so they are acknowledging this

      • Todd

        Agreed. They should allow customers to cancel their service but also give them a way to continue paying their agreed on monthly payments.

      • 21stNow

        I wonder where T-Mobile’s Legal/Business Affairs department was in approving this marketing material. This, along with not stating the device price that customers with plans under $50 would have to pay on the store signs and website, makes me think that someone actively suppressed the legal department in regards to this new campaign

  • Wow. Are you serious?

  • Didn’t realize that you had to pay off the remaining balance at the time you cancel your service. Was thinking you could continue to just pay the $20 dollar fee.

    • Kenan Jackson

    • His Generation is screwed

      you cant be serious

      • Chris Drudge

        Why can’t he be serious? Many other consumer devices purchased at stores are frequently eligible for some type of financing offers, including 0% “same as cash” financing. Other then making some minimum payment over a period of time otherwise interest penalties kick in, there is no other commitments necessary. You aren’t committing to buying other products or services that Best Buy, Sears, etc offer…you are just committing that over the next X months or years you’ll pay some minimum and have it paid off at the end of the period.

        T-mobiles EIP is different in that the EIP is contingent on you having service. It’s a very reasonable commitment, and the AG isn’t arguing that it’s not. It just has to be more clearly documented that if a customer ends their service with T-mobile prior to the EIP agreement being fulfilled, there’s a balloon payment requirement.

        If a contract doesn’t explicitly state a requirement, the signer can’t
        be legally bound to a condition that was implied, even if it’s reasonable implication.

        • Dion Mac

          SHUT UP, SHUT UP!!! This is all horse sh*t!

          If this isn’t the biggest lobbyist ploy I’ve ever seen… This AG is complaint about EIP smoove after a month of T-Mobile clowning the other three carriers and calling their rates unfair. Truth is, EIP has been available for about half a decade and aint nobody said not nothing. It was absolutely apart of the plan then and if you cancelled back then, you had to pay off the remaining EIP in one big as$ balloon payment.

          *In the Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint meeting* Tell all managers to go to TmoNews and complain about that new uncarrier setup they got goingz on. Verizon customers have already had a 100,000 petition signed. Well what are you looking at? GET TO IT!!!

    • just pay etf

      valid point and something you hear tmo employees say they can’t tell you even if you ask. what’s up with all these employees calling their customers dumb? back when they had contracts, contract termination and ETF are part of the contract detail, yet, i’ve had an employee say to me he can’t sell me the phone if I;m asking about ETF… WTF? until last month, ETF IS the whole point of the contract, yet tmobile encourages their employees not to talk about it? And now, when people ask if they can keep paying the $20, you have employees calling their customers dumb?

      • Dakota

        I’d never believe anything a rep tells me if I don’t confirm it. They’ve provided incorrect info all the time. And if they or the independent stores that look like T-Mobile still work commission,that creates incentive to do anything to get the sale

        • Dion Mac

          Thats any customer service. Period. Personal experience .. this week. cost me $105 in misinformation.

    • Jones

      Not..

  • Nearmsp

    Talk about big government. Now what T-mobile needs to conduct tutorial classes to explain to consumers their contract?

  • Eric Hare

    Wait… you mean I actually have to pay for an item that I’m financing if I back out of the agreement?!

    • UncleFan

      Of course you have to pay for it… but why can’t you just keep making $20 monthly payments until the phone is paid off, regardless of whether you have a service plan? Oh, that’s right, because T-Mobile sneakily tied the Equipment Installment Plan to the wireless service plan. THAT’S WHY the AG is cracking down, because of that one shady little detail.

      • ssl48

        You have nailed it! This why will continue using the $30 Walmart plan and purchase my phones unlocked elsewhere. They change the terms once you want to cancel the service and demand payment upfront.

      • fentonr

        You can’t continue to make payments because you aren’t a customer after you cancel your line. Its not sneaky, you owe them money, and, as in finance a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, they’re losing money every day you take your sweet time to pay that device back. That’s ok if you’re paying for service, if you tell them you don’t want to be a customer though, they’re going to call in their loans.

        • UncleFan

          “they’re losing money every day you take your sweet time to pay that device back…”

          Do you know that for a fact, or are you just guessing? T-Mobile claims that they are “getting rid of subsidies”. If T-Mobile is depending on revenue from service plans to offset losses from the EIP contracts, do you know what that would mean????

          It would mean that T-MOBILE IS LYING, because they are still SUBSIDIZING the cost of phones with the service plans – duh!

        • WeagleWeagleWDE

          You should probably read what he said again. He didn’t say they were subsidizing the phone. He said “a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow”, meaning that the $600 you financed at 0% to get a phone is not going to be worth $600 24 months from now. T-mobile is fine with that as long as you are a paying customer because…….wait for it……..they are making money off of your monthly rate plan!!!!!! If you no longer want a rate plan then they are completely within their rights to require the balance to be paid off immediately. Now maybe if you want it to get really complicated, I’m sure T-mobile would gladly let you keep paying for that phone at say…26% interest for the remainder of those 24 months and they can get some money from you that way.

        • kalel33

          So you are saying that T-mobile’s plans have strings attached and have restrictions. That’s different than what they’ve been saying all along. Just saying.

        • anonymous

          there are no strings attached. Bring in your own phone or pay retail up front, you don’t have to do an E.I.P. That’s your choice

        • This guy makes the most sense. Remember that T-Mobile is a for profit company. Most of UcleFan comments assume that T-Mobile is a non profit community wireless provider. Verizon is offering something similar but with finance charges. The fact that the phone is at 0 APR and no interest is a BENEFIT and not a right that T-Mobile gives to its current postpaid customers. If you wanted to terminate your postpaid account then you should pay finance charges for you installments. if you are unhappy with the situation you can stick with Classic plans and have ETFs , prepaid and buy the phone at once or with a credit card, which is going to be unlikely 0% finance and 0 APR, or you can switch to another carrier, since they are much better. What surprises me is that people will complain about every move a company makes until the service they provide is at no cost, or even better if it makes the customer money.

        • fentonr

          Actually, yes, I do know that for a fact, and I already explained, it, admittedly briefly. T-Mobile doesn’t technically lose money. Its a zero interest loan. Meaning, the phone costs say, $500, and you pay them $500. So, no, they’re not lying, although good try at twisting what I said.

          From T-Mobile’s perspective, and the perspective of the financial entities who own their debt (which is primarily DT right now, although it will be banks and stockholders shortly after they go public) yes, T-Mobile does lose money every day you don’t pay them back. Here’s why: a dollar today is not worth as much as a dollar tomorrow because of inflation. Basically, inflation is the idea that money is more valuable the earlier you have it, because you are better off having a dollar today, because you can use that money to make more money. Thus, the purchasing power or value, of a dollar tomorrow is less than that of a dollar today. So, If you pay T-Mobile over two years what you barrowed today, they’re losing money. Financial and accounting reports will reflect this, because that is how these two fields work, they adjust for inflation. Just the way the world works.

          As to my source, myself, I’ve a degree in business and a financial calculator. If you would like to get further information on this subject I suggest you get a book on finance or accounting. Specifically you should look up the time value of money.

        • UncleFan

          I understand all of that – I took financial accounting in college. YOU are the one who lacks understanding. The WHOLE PREMISE of T-Mobile’s “Uncarrier” shpiel is that they claim to have SEPARATED the cost of the device out from the price the customer pays for wireless service. BUT, that’s just not quite TRUE, is it? You can call it whatever you want and go on and on about “present value” or whatever, but that doesn’t hide or change the fact that payment for the phone and payment for the wireless service are still deeply entangled, despite what T-Mobile claims in their ads. The contract for the EIP stipulates that the customer has to keep paying for the wireless service IF they want to keep paying for the phone in installments. This unfortunate aspect of the EIP makes a whole lot of sense if – as YOU claimed – T-Mobile is “losing money every day” on the cost of the device. If that loss (or whatever you want to call it) is being offset by revenue from the service plans, I really don’t see how anyone can deny that T-Mobile is still subsidizing (at least partially) the devices with the service plans!

        • jkapper1

          I’m sorry, these pitchforks are entirely uncalled for, if you are not a paying customer why should they continue you finance your phone at 0%…. Pay off the balloon with your credit card if you want that service. Would you be happier if they removed the free financing option so you paid 600 upfront, then they would be 100% separate?

          Let’s say they did let you continue the loan, that’s millions of dollars lost in “free” loans given to non-paying customers. Which would increase the cost of the service to paying customers.

          T-Mobile’s move will do great things for competition/economics of cell service, and uninformed people are just slowing down the eventuality.

          I would LOVE to be able to pay off my “balance” Sprint Iphone, and move/trade in phone to another carrier that isn’t complete data-crap, though the system does not allow me to do that… Carriers would be held to a much larger regional standard if customers could flock as soon as service started sucking.

        • UncleFan

          “Would you be happier if…”

          I’d be happier if T-Mobile quit trying to trick people with these new Simple Choice + EIP plans, which cost more than the old Classic plans did. You used to be able to buy any phone you wanted, SUBSIDIZED on a Classic plan that cost only $50/month – I have a grandfathered Classic plan to prove it. Now that’s not possible anymore, and I find that very annoying. The cheapest Simple Choice plan is $70/month total when you include the smartphone installment plan. These new plans are a price hike and everybody knows it, but the brainwashed, commission-greedy reps won’t admit it.

        • Dion Mac

          You always pick half of a sentence in someone’s post and try to make your point. Point is not all SMARTphones cost $20 a month on EIP. And to be unhonest, if you paid more($249.99 for your phone instead of $99) your EIP would be cheaper.

          BUT I FINALLY THINK I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU’RE SO UPSET. YOU’VE PROBABLY BEEN WITH TMOBILE FOR 20 YEARS, AND HAVE BEEN ON THE PHONE MANIPULATING THEM TO GET YOU MORE THAN WHAT YOU DESERVE… NOW YOU HAVE THIS AWESOME CLASSIC PLAN BUT YOU CAN’T GET THE KIND OF SUPPORT YOU USE TO NOW UNLESS YOU GO THRU AN INDIRECT DEALER. Just go… leave us alone. There are 200 comments I’m trying to read and 100 of them are most a combination of you and people trying to prove you wrong. #VAMOOSE!

        • UncleFan

          LOL! Actually it’s been about 10 years, and I’ve had at least one phone activated on T-Mo continuously during that time. I guess your assessment is more or less accurate, although I do not agree with your insulting tone.

        • Jeffrey Curry

          This person is on bath salts

        • Guest

          baaaaaaaaahahahahhahahahaha! It’s the only logical explanation!

        • Dion Mac

          extra salt

        • Guest1

          YOU LOOOOOOSE!!!!!!!!!!

        • anonymous

          I agree with everything you’ve been saying ^

        • jkapper1

          Your grandfathered plan has to be very old (maybe a sidekick), last I checked T-Mobile was never that competitive with smart-phone data… (It’s why I moved to Sprint) though they change their plans all the time so it’s hard to keep track.

          The “subsidy” 400/24 equates to about $17 a month. T-Mobile still offers a 100 minutes 5 gb 4g plan for about $30 if you want to look into that. That’s the equv of $47 a month for a ton of data (if you don’t use a lot of minutes).

          Also maybe look into Strait Talk if you don’t stream video.

        • Dion Mac

          Maybe this is the kicker you need to understand the benefits. Just throw out the people who purchase T-Mobile phones threw either option out of the equation. Now, look at all the people who buy their phones from different sources. In the old day, people would be upset having to sign a contract because they bought a phone thru a different avenue. This uncarrier plan now brings to the fore front that the old tmobile plans and the still current other 3 carrier plans(contract or not) would be taking advantage of people in their plans, that were originally there to offset the cost of subsidized phones.

          So you leave tmobile and go to at&t with your iphone. There is no subsidy giving to you by at&t b/c you brought your own phone. HOWEVER… The cost of your plan is the same as everybody else’s that did get a subsidize phone… But… wasn’t the point of the inflated plans to recoup cost of subsidies? Is that fair to people who BYOD? With T-Mobile’s uncarrier plan, these people are NOT unjustly overcharged for the plans.

          I WILL BE AWAITING YOUR EDUCATED RESPONSE.

        • UncleFan

          I would never bring my own phone to a post-paid plan on AT&T (or Verizon or Sprint) because it would be a horrible deal. However, I could say the same about T-Mobile. Why would I pay $650 for an unlocked iPhone and then turn around and waste money on a Simple Choice plan when the Monthly4G plan is SO much cheaper?

          You are also ignoring the fact that T-Mobile got rid of the 500 minute voice bucket and forces you to pay for texting now. If it weren’t for those two things, the Simple Choice plans might not be so bad because they would be $10 or $20 cheaper. T-Mobile effectively HIKED the price on customers who only wanted the cheapest plans.

        • Dion Mac

          I have unlimited, yet I only use 2 to 300 a month. Why? Because you’ll never know when you need the minutes and the comfort of knowing you’ll never go over is worth the money. Secondly, prepaid is NOT the same as SimpleChoice. You don’t get roaming, you dont get EIP options, you dont get payment extensions on your monthly bill if its a hard month, he’ll you barely get customer service and you think regular customer service is bad…

        • Dion Mac

          You keep comparing SimpleChoice with Prepaid. I’ve told y.a. that prepaid and postpaid receives two totally different service experiences. You cant expect to buy a $200 laptop and expect it to run like Mac Book Pro.

        • Guest

          This is such a great response :)

        • Dion Mac

          I think i love you!!!

        • fentonr

          I’m not gonna lie, I enjoyed writing that.

        • Andromedo

          And now they have to make that clear.

          At the end of the day, this isn’t that big a deal once it is out there.

          My disappointment has been that, this was supposed to be the end of sneaky carrier lawyer games.

          That is not going to be what people are taking away from this.

      • Sam

        You can’t keep making payments because it’s a BUSINESS! It’s not goodwill. You’re given the option to pay it off over your service, on your bill. If you don’t have service, then T-Mobile becomes a credit credit organization, not a cell phone provider. If you want to keep making payments after you cancel, just pay full price on your credit card up front. Problem solved.

        • UncleFan

          “If you don’t have service, then T-Mobile becomes a credit credit organization, not a cell phone provider.”

          So what? T-Mobile is supposed to be the UNCarrier, now. They may not be making much off the devices, but I’m pretty sure they’re not losing money, either.

        • 21stNow

          Sam I get where you are coming from, but a reasonable consumer could assume what UncleFan said, as well. This is the AG’s issue in that whatever T-Mobile’s terms are, they should be clearly stated.

        • Dion Mac

          The think is reasonable customers get it. Its the unreasonable customers and customer that just dont get into details who this would affect.

          BUT OK… If they just need to make sure that they say in their script… “Now should you decide to cancel your service, you will not have an Early Termination Fee however you will have to pay any unpaid balance(s) on your phone(s). There will not be an option to continue to pay zero % installments once service is cancelled, but you will have that option if you agree to pay 82% interest thru DT Financial Services upon a rigorous credit approval.”

          And this can be done thru the automated system like the contracts use to be. Ok, I give in… happy?

      • Dion Mac

        If this is soooooo big, then why is their only one AG out of fifty saying something

        • UncleFan

          One of them had to be first.

      • Anonymous

        Haven’t you been reading the other posts??? how does this not make sense to you? There are like a million people trying to explain it to you and you’re still not getting it. You either want to sound smart or you’re a troll. Why would they continue to finance a phone with zero interest for someone who is not a customer? T-Mobile would have customers from all the other carriers financing their phones at zero interest. Why is T-Mobile going to finance phones at 0 interest for other carriers? It costs money to maintain an account open. How would T-Mobile profit from financing a phone sold at MSRP at zero interest? This is still business, the company has to make money. They’re not here to help you buy things you can’t afford, they’re here to offer a service.

        • UncleFan

          They profit on the phones because there is already a profit margin built into the price of the phone. Do you really think the carriers have been selling us devices at cost all this time? The profit on devices may be small, but it’s there.

  • Cat Isidor

    Um…it’s right in the details of the agreement. It’s been mentioned all over the place. You’d have to be an idiot to not be aware of the having to pay off the phone if you leave tmo.

    • thepanttherlady

      And it’s unbelievable the amount of people that have complained about having to pay for their phone if they cancel. The saying is true “common sense isn’t so common”.

    • JB

      Not to mention that you can turn in the phone for “fair market value” if you cancel service to offset the amount due.

      • Genecio

        But the terms is actually in the EIP agreement that you sign. Even if online they’ll email you the EIP agreement that you sign electronically. Not in the service agreement but the EIP agreement states that is a loan and the balance must be paid off in full if terminated.

    • Dion Mac

      **ATTENTION** Before you scroll down, be aware that UncleFan is on a rampage and is reeking havoc on this post. To start, its name is Uncle something which would indicate a male but the profile pic is of a female with blue hair AND its profile states trouble is coming. So it seems, thru its comments, that it is here to cause trouble and pi$s people off. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!

  • adam

    this is what government thinks. we are so dumb that can’t understand we have to pay for the phone full price

  • NinoBr0wn

    Yes, hold my hand ever so tighter as I cross the street. I didn’t know that mack truck would end my season early without you telling me.

  • Brian Bloom

    WTH?? Are they really saying they expect people to think they can sign up for a payment plan for something expensive, receive the device, cancel whenever they want, and not be expected to pay off the remaining balance?

    C’mon – if I buy a car and suddenly decide I don’t like it, I don’t get the car for free.. I still owe the bank for it.

    They aren’t in the business of giving away expensive phones… I’m baffled by this entire pronouncement. Am I missing something?

    • kalel33

      Ah, but if you stop driving your car then you’re still allowed to pay off the car in payments. T-mobile is like you quit driving your car and now you must pay off the car in full, instead of in payments.

  • TechHog

    ………………………….. What? This was clear.

  • UMA_Fan

    Hopefully Tmobile stands up for themselves. The traditional way of buying phones with contracts is MORE deceptive than what Tmobile is doing. How much clearer can they be that you are financing the phone?? Either every company should explicitly state the cost of service after two year or none of them should.

    • Exactly. Should we force the other three carriers to tell consumers that their device really isn’t $199 now too?

      • Dakota

        But it is. They’re paying that in exchange for signing a contract…if they break it they’re charged a penalty

  • Guest

    This guy is so dumb he probably thinks he works in Washington DC.

  • Guest

    This guy is so dumb he probably thinks he works in Washington DC…

  • roxva

    TMobile had made it so simple that even a 5th grader can understand that you pay for the balance of the installment when you terminate subscription. Maybe the Attorney General is just disappointed coz he has a 2-yr sentence to serve with his provider.

    • kalel33

      I could see a lot of people thinking they’d continue paying for the financing of $20 per month for the device, to which they and T-mobile agreed upon, when they canceled the line of service.

  • Guest

    If people had common sense, this wouldn’t be an issue.

  • Guest

    This guy is so dumb he probably thinks he works in Washington DC..

  • c

    Someone is getting paid to do this. Att is mostly owned by the government ties.

    • Ford_Thundercougarfalconbird

      AT&T is a publicly traded company. They are not “owned” by anyone.

    • UncleFan

      LOL, say what? If AT&T had any pull with the government, this site would be called AttNews by now!

      • thepanttherlady

        Oh the horror! :)

        • UncleFan

          This is one thing we can agree on. I was not happy about the prospect of falling back into AT&T’s clutches.

        • thepanttherlady

          LOL See? I’m not a completely unreasonable person. :)

          Actually, if that merger had gone through I would be here. I loathe AT&T and would have gone elsewhere.

  • Jose M Gonzalez

    nice that he defended ppl that probably jumped in head 1st without reading as some tend to do. but i agree with others, when i read the entire uncarrier thing i thought it was pretty clear you had to pay for the device. i wonder if ppl were really dumb enough to think they could just walk away with a new device for cheap.

    • Chris Drudge

      My take away from the article was that they couldn’t read about it even if they wanted to because it wasn’t clearly stipulated anywhere. Yes it makes sense to reasonable, logical people. Unfortunately the average consumer isn’t reasonable or logical. If they were payday loans, rent-to-own, and similar types of businesses wouldn’t be in business. If it’s not written down somewhere, but it’s still required, there’s an issue that needs fixed.

      • Jose M Gonzalez

        very true. they count on the ppl that rush in under the impression of a great deal with reasonable term and then hit you with all the extra stuff.

        i haven’t read any paperwork at a t-mobile store as of yet but i could have sworn that in the press release it mentioned that with out the contract you could leave the carrier but were expected to finish paying the device since it was yours. also that they wouldn’t unlock it for use elsewhere until it was paid. i could be wrong though.

  • Jones

    But this does dispelled the no contract agreement Tmobile is advertising. The contact is not with Tmobile but it is with the Finance company. If you want the best deal for mobile phone check us out.

  • mark

    Prediction: the people will vote for this idiot as the next president.

    • bob90210

      Why would people vote for T-Mobile for president when T-Mobile barely has any LTE?

      • thepanttherlady

        I believe the OP is referring to the Attorney General. :)

  • thepanttherlady

    When all these changes went into effect last month, I know for a fact that the website didn’t have the following clause next to each device:

    Qualifying rate plan required.SRP $XXX.XX. 0% APR On Approved Credit for well-qualified buyer. Device loan balance due on service cancellation.

    I know this has been there for at least a couple weeks now but not sure when they actually added it. I also don’t know how this has been represented in actual stores.

    A customer not as savvy as those of us who frequent blogs shouldn’t have to search through paragraphs of fine print to know this is expected of them if they decide to cancel. Shame on T-Mobile for not being more transparent in this matter and making sure customers understood their policy and what is expected of their customers. It shouldn’t have gotten this far.

    On the flip side, customers need to stop trying to hold others accountable for their own “buyers remorse”. Why didn’t THEY ask questions? When you cancel a credit card the full balance becomes due. If you shut your utilities off, the full balance becomes due. Why is this zero percent loan expected to be any different?

    • just pay etf

      car financing does not require you to get Chevron gas for the remainder of the contract. If I want shell, I should have the option to keep my current monthly payments.

      A better option would be to have a 3rd party do the financing, not have EIP tied to tmobile.

      want to delete this too? anything offensive in this post?

      • thepanttherlady

        #1 Your device payment would remain the same regardless of whether you bought a case for it from China or America. Where you purchase your “accessories” is your business.

        Likewise, the finance company doesn’t give a hoot what gas you put in the car. If you return it, they expect payment in full, not the monthly financing amount.

        #2 I haven’t deleted any comments so check your accusations at the door.

      • 21stNow

        I do think that a third party should have handled the financing, but I don’t think that many companies would have been willing to do it for 0% interest.

    • bob90210

      Because T-Mobile did not call it a loan. They used loan terms such as down payment but they not say it was a loan. As you said, the device loan text did not show up until recently.

      • thepanttherlady

        Actually, this part has been up since the beginning:

        0% APR On Approved Credit for well-qualified buyer.

        To me, the above verbiage would indicate loan. Additionally, I think the act of making payments for a phone could be considered a type of loan. I do get what you’re saying though.

        The part after that regarding the balance being paid in full upon cancellation is the new verbiage T-Mobile added. This should have posted from the onset of the whole UnCarrier business and change of plans. Employees should have also been instructed to inform customers of this policy when choosing the EIP option. I have a receipt in my purse now that still states the policy about the ETF and on another page refers to a “Flexpay” account. Nothing about EIP policy. And we wonder why some customers are so confused! LOL

        I don’t like the whole “don’t ask, don’t tell” concept T-Mobile seems to have adopted and it didn’t begin with this change.

    • Andromedo

      Just one quibble. You do not have to pay off a credit card immediately when you cancel it. Your terms stay the same, and you can continue making your minimum payment until the balance is done, if you prefer.

      T-Mo’s terms definitely fall under the “no free lunch” category.

      • thepanttherlady

        Thank you for the correction. I haven’t used a credit card in 10+ years so I probably shouldn’t have used that analogy. I prefer cash, or T-Mobile’s interest free loans. =D

        • jdubtrey

          You’re missing out on a lot of credit card discounts then, I imagine. :)

          It’s free money if you always pay in full.

  • sloanie

    So if you terminate service you also terminate the EIP and have to pay the balance? For some reason I thought you could continue to make monthly payments for the remainder of the EIP.

    • ssl48

      Yes, you would receive one bill with the entire balance due for the phone immediately. I thought the same as you did initially, but I was informed that’s not the case. It makes you less likely to cancel service, just like a contract.

  • WK80

    So they protected the stupid from themselves. Gotcha.

  • kev2684

    wow…. was it that hard?

    critical hit!
    dumb +10
    common sense -10

  • Guest

    Attorney generals, always trying to cock block.

  • atari37

    Guys,

    Because WE are smart enough to know this doesn’t mean everyone out there knows exactly how it works. How many of us read the long terms of agreement crap we get for signing contracts? Some teenager make be too happy about getting their first phone that everything being said to them goes in one ear and out the other.

    It all sounds like common sense until someone with a good lawyer comes along and says it wasn’t. It doesn’t hurt T-Mobile to put in in giant prints. This way people can’t claim in court that they weren’t well informed.

  • Guest

    I doubt people thought they could just walk away without paying for the price of the phone. However, I do find it ridiculous that when I verify with a store employee that I can cancel at anytime without a penalty, they say yes. Even when they have the new phone I’m buying from them in their hands. My fault for not reading the contract closer, but it’s undeniably shady.

    • thepanttherlady

      What penalty are you referring to?

      • kalel33

        He’s probably referring to the penalty of having the EIP dropped and having to pay for the remainder of the phone. That is a penalty, instead of being able to pay $20 per month for the remainder of the time that they financed for.

  • Attorney Generals, always protecting the dumb from their own stupidity.

  • Kris Chaitu

    somebody seriously lobbying for at&t

  • gperez

    WOW Politicians trying to be heroes, like we don’t know if you buy something it has to be paid off. Like we didn’t know that!. Why don’t they put their nose into what really matters to people.

  • TmoLove

    Hate to say it, but its true. While I am all in favor of the new UNcarrier approach, it does seem a little silly to say no more contracts, but then still have you pay off a phone for 2 years. It just kind of sucks there’s not a better way of doing it. It seems an awful lot like a contract. But either way, I understood those terms perfectly before getting my phone 2 weeks ago so I’m not complaining.

    • RobotChupacabra

      You can pay off the phone at any point before 2 years, or buy it outright.

      • TmoLove

        Yeah sure, if you have $600. It’s a lot less affordable at sign-up without an upgrade is all I’m saying.

        • fsured

          Don’t buy a $600 phone. Tmobile is giving you the option to pay it off with installments. Aka it’s a loan for the cost of the phone. Like any loan you can pay it off sooner or ride out the minimum payments. After that your free to do what you want with the phone and cancel the service.

        • kalel33

          But, T-mobile states no contracts and no strings attached. I can see where this is an issue. The financing is dependent on you continuing service, ie. strings attached. Since they’re totally separate then you should be able to cancel and keep paying the $20 a month. That’s not how it is or should be but if you say “no restrictions” or “no strings” then that’s how it should be. They should just be up front with, “Your financing is ONLY continued with the restriction that you maintain a post paid account, throughout the term of financing”.

      • Right, you can even purchase the phone outright there. Heck it’s an option on MyT-Mobile, and if I’m not mistaken the result T-Mobile website too.

        • RobotChupacabra

          Which is why I’m confused as to why saying “no contract” is misleading. There’s no service contract and many payment schedule possibilities for phones. This’ll end up hurting T-Mo’s marketing. Verizon and AT&T must be ecstatic at this news.

  • Binny Gupta

    does tmobile still have contracts,
    And is the iphone subsidized. (my mom)

  • Scott

    I believe the line right before the first bullet-point should read “Under the terms of the AOD, T-Mobile will agree NOT to” instead of “Under the terms of the AOD, T-Mobile will agree to”

  • purenupe1

    Thank god at least one politician has intelligence! I hope Illinois AG Lisa Madigan Follows suit. And for you people questioning the AG, you need to realize that a 24 month commitment is a 24 month commitment no matter if you call it a 24 month service agreement or 24 month no interest finance plan. Either way you are required to stay 24 months or pay a penalty. And since they won’t unlock the device till its paid for, it’s practically useless (functionality like 4G or LTE is severely limited and choice of carriers reduced) outside of the tmobile network and furthermore forces you to fulfill the 24 month term. All Points I have been complaining about since this marketing ploy began

    • thepanttherlady

      Please show me where I am required to stay with T-Mobile for 24 months if I’ve paid off my phone balance in say 2 months?

      Please also show me where I am required to stay with T-Mobile for 24 months if I’ve purchased a phone outright (doesn’t matter where) and choose to cancel after the first month.

      I’ll wait.

      • UncleFan

        Those scenarios aren’t the problematic ones, however. How about the scenario where a customer signs an EIP for $20/month and expects to be able to keep paying off that balance over the next 24 months, regardless of whether or not he keeps a post-paid wireless service plan going. Deceptive T-Mo reps have been going all over the internet (and probably in the stores, too) telling people that the contract is only on the PHONE, and not the SERVICE. Obviously, this is not true, and the AG is calling them out, and rightfully so!

        • thepanttherlady

          You can’t walk into a T-Mobile and purchase a phone on monthly payments to use it on another network. You are required to purchase service, yes? They have extended their customers a line of credit to assist them with their phone purchases.

          T-Mobile isn’t a finance company. Once that customer/provider relationship has been severed (cancellation of service), T-Mobile has every right not to continue extending the option of monthly payments.

          I do; however, believe that T-Mobile holds the majority of the responsibility here in not being more forthcoming and upfront with customers regarding this policy from the onset.

        • Kenan Jackson

          That customer should read the contract. It’s not deceptive or hidden or shady.

          I’ve read all of your post here….wow. You should NEVER sign a contract anywhere. The idiocy of your so called argument may have cost me brain cells.

        • Jeffrey Curry

          This person is a crook and doesn’t need to be with T-Mobile

        • UncleFan

          Who?

      • purenupe1

        Your missing the point of contention, the reality is that T-Mobile is not truly offering a no contract deal as advertised because their is a penalty of bringing the entire balance of the EIP due immediately if you don’t keep service for 24 month, this is effectively the same as a ETF. If the EIP was truly a finance agreement then it’s terms of a specified number of payments due every month for a specified time would be mutually Exclusive of the T-Mobile service. In other words canceling your service should not change the terms of your EIP. The money is still due just not all at once.

        • thepanttherlady

          Because I don’t agree with you automatically means I’m “missing the point”?

          T-Mobile is not a finance company, they are a provider of service. They have extended a line of credit to their customers to purchase a phone. When the relationship between customer/provider has been severed they are no longer obligated to continue allowing the now purchaser to make zero percent interest payments for the remaining balance.

        • purenupe1

          Not because you disagree but rather cause your wrong, T-Mobile is essentially acting as a finance company when they issue the consumer a 0% loan as you called it. And again the terms of that loan if tied to a requirement of service can change the due date or loan term then it is essentially an EFT or penalty. The only way to get a no contact deal with T-Mobile is paying outright for the phone at checkout or bringing you own device and not taking any employer discounts on service.

        • thepanttherlady

          I respectfully agree to disagree. :)

        • ssl48

          And why is the phone locked when you pay for it in full? I’ve heard that they sell them locked even though you’re paying in full at the time of purchase.

        • Kenan Jackson

          And you can have it unlocked. Read the policy.

    • bob90210

      Obviously T-Mobile needs to make the terms even more explicit since you clearly do not understand how the loan works.

    • Kenan Jackson

      You’re not required to stay 24 months. You are free to pay your device of at any time. I’m going to pay $20 extra per month so I’m clear in 1 year. No other major phone company allows that.

  • sincarafan247

    Bob Ferguson…….any relation to Turd Ferguson? lol

  • bozgp

    Problem solved! Guy complained, Tmobile manned up, said we are sorry it wasn’t clear enough, we will work on making it better. I think they handled it masterfully. proud of you Tmo! Keep this up.

    Whether it was clear enough in the first place doesn’t matter at this point. Obviously at least one person didn’t think it was clear enough, albeit he was reaching. In either case, good job Tmobile.

    • Kris Chaitu

      did somebody really think..no contract and free phone? must be stupid!!!

    • Dion Mac

      I personally would have liked to see t-Mobile challenge this. It makes it seem as T-Mobile did something wrong when they didn’t…

      Hey T-Mobile… I know you didn’t kill this girl, but I want you to say you did and say you did it premeditatively so we can give you the death penalty, ok??? OK!

  • M42

    No different from the contract I got from them last year, except for the loss of the ETF. And yet, he didn’t seem to have a problem with the old contract did he?

  • Aurizen

    I thought the plan was based on commonsense, if you buy a phone in installments and cancel its services who would think you would go off scott free? Obviously you would have to pay off the phone before you leave.

  • Zac

    Along these same lines, how horribly UN-uncarrier are TMo’s recent changes to their SIM Unlock Policy? 18 Months before you can get a SIM unlock on Classic plans??? These are people with an ETF hanging over their heads; why not unlock their phones? Phone COMPLETELY paid off if on EIP, when the phone has to be paid for one way or another even if customer cancels??? Embarrassingly anti-consumer changes for TMo here. Their SIM Unlock Policy was already the harshest in the US, and now this?!?

  • Manny

    Lol. Sometimes people need something to do. T-Mobile tries to shake things up and it is the “Bad Guy.” T-Mobile is so shady for trying to change the way they do business. I mean… I guess so? I literally can’t even take this article seriously, I feel bad for T-Mobile and the people that elected this guy, like really? Shouldn’t he be tackling criminals and making the world a better place?

    • Manny

      But thankfully T-Mobile is a good little business and fixes things. Cause that is how you do business. Made a mistake going into new territory, then you fix things.

  • Mike

    Geez, I thought it was very clear that you had to pay off the phone if leaving tmo. Thought it was also very clear that you could pay your phone off early if you wanted to do so and end the uncontract period. Guess some need it spoon fed to them.

  • sushimane

    there’s always someone complaining they need to get over it and leave tmobile alone.

  • skarenboo

    My recommendation is Do your math! I’ve been buying unlock phones to use on Tmo for years (before they even have this no contract thing). It’s so much cheaper than AT&T , Verizon, or Sprint unless you’re on a family plan. If I remember correctly I was able to save over 1000 within a year and use that to buy any phone I want.

    • skarenboo

      Thought their advertisement is clear as mud.

  • Dakota

    Hope others follow the same

  • JB

    I get what’s going on, but it’s still, if you need a credit check and so much down with X amount per month.. one should assume it’s a loan and it’s due should you leave. Though I don’t think a lot of people read the fine print anyways… However, If it’s about being simple, they should spell that part out loud and clear so there’s no questions asked.

    There’s also the option of BYOD, which in that case, you’re not under contract at all.

    It’s still a heck of a lot better than when we were on a contracted value. Don’t take out an EIP and then cancel. Otherwise you’re on the hook for EIP AND the ETF.

    • 21stNow

      That’s the point, things like this should not be left to assumptions by the customer.

      This made me think (way) back to my college days. There were some things that my friends did in regards to loans and credit cards that truly baffled me. There are quite a few teenagers that think that if you have a credit card, you can go into a store and present that card for payment, get the goods and this is the end of the story. There are no bills that will come later, no credit history to wreck. This isn’t logical, but it’s true.

      The perfectly “reasonable” teenagers said that the credit card company knew that they had no jobs and therefore, no way to pay this bill when it came. The credit card companies signed them up on a college campus, so they knew that they were college students. Those $500-limit credit cards caused a lot of headaches for people who don’t know any better.

      • TechHog

        It isn’t left to assumptions. It’s stated on the site. It’s no more hidden than termination fees were.

        • thepanttherlady

          It is now but it wasn’t when the UnCarrier plans rolled out.

        • TechHog

          I could have sworn it was

        • thepanttherlady

          It was added within the last couple of weeks, just not sure exactly when. I know as of 3/29 it wasn’t because @21stNow:disqus and I were discussing the retail pricing of the BB Z10 being higher for non-customers.

      • Jeffrey Curry

        All I wanna know is why is the attorney general going after T Mobile when Verizon sprint and AT and T are knocking consumers over the head and they have tons of fine print that no one knows about, everything that you buy pretty much has some kind of fine print or undisclosed detail no company tells you every detail about their products or services in a bold in your face upfront manner

        • Kenan Jackson

          First of, fine print IS a disclosure. Second, if you don’t understand the fine print, don’t sign the contract or ask questions. T mobile didn’t hide the “balloon” payment if you decide to cancel, it right in the T&C, not very down I might add.

          This is a problem of idiot, selfish, uneducated consumers.

        • Jeffrey Curry

          Bro what are you talking about, I agree what I am saying is T Mobile is not doing anything more wrong than what are the other carriers are doing

        • Kenan Jackson

          Somehow that got under the wrong comment. It wasn’t meant for you.

  • Trevnerdio

    Yet AT&T can lie until the cows come home…

  • 21stNow

    OK, time for my dumb question. Does this right to return provision only apply to residents of Washington State?

  • Mirad77

    We need more AGs like this one.

  • Robert

    Wow, unclefan has got to be the biggest troll in this thread.

    • thepanttherlady

      Just because someone doesn’t agree with the majority doesn’t make them a troll.

      • PhantomWraith

        Well apparently from David’s point of view because I call it like I see it on his obvious Iphone fanaticism that it makes me a Troll. so I’ll have to disagree with the above statement.

        • thepanttherlady

          I went through most of your postings and David’s responses and try as I might I was unable to locate where he called you a troll for you calling it “like I see it on his obvious Iphone fanaticism”.

      • Robert

        Disagreement alone doesn’t make you a troll. Letting every person you disagree with know you disagree on every post made, and then following up with almost identical comments does make you a troll.

        I don’t mind disagreement. Clearly, the same cannot be said for someone who has to kick a bloated dead vulture consumed horse when I don’t see things their way

  • Kenan Jackson

    One more example of the uneducated, welfare state of America.

  • common sense

    This is so dumb….this is like someone getting mad at a car commercial for not telling them how to drive a car….”wait you mean I actually have to put my foot on the gas, I thought this drove itself”

  • Tom

    I always knew T-Mobile were a bunch of crooks ever since they announced this. Hopefully they can get back to honest capitalism and make my bill a little less transparent, disguise never ending phone payments into my other services, collect these payments long after my phone is paid off, cap my phone and text minutes, adjust my “night and weekend” zones at will, collect an extra $15 or so for the right to tether, and refuse to answer any serious questions like ETFs over chat or email and forcing me to call in.

    • Dion Mac

      Is this really Brian or someone perpetrating?

      • Tom

        I am not sure what you mean by Brian, but if you think I am someone named Brian that is not true. It was my attempt at sarcasm. So much shady goes on in the cell industry that other companies get away yet this is what the AG goes after. Frustrating is all.

        • Dion Mac

          Clearly Disquse was tripping all day yesterday and it showed you as Brian. But you didn’t sound like him so I was confused. Sorry about that Tom.

      • Dion Mac

        Apparently disquse is tripping. It said your name was Brian but you didn’t talk like Brian, but I now see it says Tom. Disquse was tripping a lot yesterday tho.

  • Dion Mac

    This is the works of at&t!

  • TBN27

    Ferguson is so stupid.

  • Bryan

    What happens if someone doesn’t even pay the bill or termination fee and just stops paying on everything ?

    • thepanttherlady

      You get sent to collections and your phone turns into an expensive paperweight.

    • superg05

      for someone who thinks they can walk away and hope back on at&t with a new phone lost there mind the phone the phone will be blacklisted and never able to work on any United States on any carrier no internet , no phone calls , no texting it will just exist and do nothing and you will get a bill for the entire cost of the phone

      • Kenan Jackson

        That’s not true. Many “blacklisted” GSM phones work on other carriers, just not the original one. Example, any AT&T or T mobile phone will work on Straight Talk or NET10, even if the person walked out on their contact.

        • superg05

          THEY JUST MADE A US CARRIER BLACKLIST DATABASE SO IT WONT BE THE CASE AFTER ITS IN FULL EFFECT
          goo.gl/4fCOk

        • Kenan Jackson

          Not sure why you’re “yelling”.

          The blacklist you refer to applies to stolen phones, not broken contacts.

        • thepanttherlady

          Now that the customer is paying full price for their phones nonpayment = stolen.

          I’ve confirmed this many times over with T-Mobile representatives regarding the policy, maybe they’re all wrong but I’m not taking any chances. Your phone will be blacklisted if payments stop being made. Doesn’t matter if you do it or you buy a phone from someone through other channels and they stop paying. There is absolutely no recourse for the buyer if this happens.

          Verizon and Sprint also render their devices useless for non-payment.

        • Kenan Jackson

          I respectfully disagree. If I am billed, be it ETF or final payment, it’s not “stolen”. The only way it could be stolen is if they cease seeking payment, including through a collections agency. A person convicted of robbery is only ordered to pay restitution if the property cannot be recovered – I’m not including payments for mental anguish or the like, as those are punitive damages. A plaintiff cannot receive compensatory damages and their property.

          I also disagree because am typing this on an AT&T GS3 I bought of EBAY from someone who broke their contact – confirmed when I chatted with AT&T that they would not allow the phone to be activated. I’m using a Net10 AT&T sim, and have been for months. So would seem AT&T isn’t even able to block its own phones from their network when used by an MVNO.

        • thepanttherlady

          Consider it my personal opinion then. :)

          As for the blacklisting, if more than 1 T-Mobile representative has stated an IMEI # will be blacklisted for non-payment you can bet I will not take any chances with “used” phones. I’ve also read too many stories, and spoke with one person who it happened to. The reasons varied between the device being reported as lost and for non-payment. I’m glad your phone is working, I’m just not a gambler. LOL

          P.S. It took me a little bit to respond because I tried to do some quick research. I read one comment that if a phone is unlocked it can still be used with another carrier (e.g. AT&T). Don’t know how true that is, don’t plan on testing the theory either!

        • Kenan Jackson

          I agree with you that it’s a gamble. And it would only take a 10 minute meeting between the carriers to change the provision as it’s written to include broken contacts.

          If what you say about unlocked phones is true, it makes the blacklist almost pointless for GSMs. There are so many services that offer unlocking, and since the code is distributed by the manufacturer to the carriers, I doubt there is a real solution. Who stops Samsung from selling codes to cell unlockers?

        • thepanttherlady

          Agreed.

  • mymobile

    UncleFan, you calculation is wrong. At Walmart, you cannot get an HTC for $150….going to Walmart.com a Note 2 is $399 for phone + $60/mo Classic Plan (unl min, txt with 500 MB at 4G) X 24 months = $1840 while you go T-Mobile corporate with $20 payment plan for 24 months, you can get the Note 2 for $199 down payment which your the total of 2 year service + phone price = $199 + $50/mo Simple Choice Plan (unl min, txt with 500MB at 4G) x 24 months + $20/mo X 24 months = $1879.

    The difference is $39 dollars more on the Simple Choice plan, however, at Walmart, you will have to pay activation fee of $35+Tax which to me Simple or Classic plan cost the consumer the same. On the other hand, the Classic has a $200 ETF but Simple Plan do not. Since you are paying the same, don’t you think Simple Plan is better than Classic in case if you need to cancel before the 2 years?

    • Dion Mac

      ^_^

  • Dion Mac

    I think we should impeach Bob Ferguson

  • souggie

    It is obvious that after reading all these posts, this much is clear:

    Most of these folkss on here should not get loans. They don’t read the proper terms of service with regard to service and monthly installments.

    Unclefan Has gone out of his way to bring to light the fact that tmobile is lying about tying folks into a “contract”
    The plain truth is that reiterating this is pointless. You have to be fundamentally uninformed when it comes to money and finances to not know that you need to investigate every claim to the letter, and understand the fine print. We are not babies, we are grown people, with common sense and should know better
    The bottom line is that if you cancel, you have to pay the full cost of the phone. That ONLY MAKES SENSE.

    Jesus, some of you really still need to be spoonfed?

  • jkapper1

    I think the main confusion in the comments is not that people didn’t think they have to continue paying back the principal… it’s that you immediately owe the principal “balloon” in full as soon as you end your service.

    Effectively the main cause of this issue is that there is a small “subsidy” in the phones that is given in 0% financing of them. And naturally T-Mobile doesn’t want to continue to lend out at 0% if you cancel….

    Maybe they could have given the option if you cancel to pay 10% interest on the remaining balance… Or charge 10% interest from the get-go on the phone (though then slightly decrease the prices of the plans to equal things out).

    Or maybe people can just use credit cards on the balloon, understand the contract, and quit complaining about a great consumer move here.

  • Inkdot23

    People need to be responsible and read their contract. Everything you need to know is printed in black and white. I think the real problem is people are dumb. I know what I was getting myself into when I purchased an iPhone.

  • i just bought the htc one online…i already have the 30 walmart plan so i got another plan and want to cancel once i get the phone (which i paid full up frot) is this possible? also, they screwed up my order and now i wont get the car dock but i’ll get a 25 dollar credit…can i transfer that credit to my walmart line?

    • ssl48

      You have to have service for 30 days before you can cancel. Also, they will not unlock the phone until you’ve had it for 40 days. Hope that answers your question.

  • LordCaliban

    I skimmed through the article and some of the comments. As far as I’m concerned TMob hasn’t lied any. They’ve allowed me to purchase a really cheap plan which I can use my current phone on, and I can cancel or leave at any time. Having decent credit and being a good customer they’ve also allowed me to purchase a new HTC One at full price, but pay for it in monthly installments which they include conveniently in my bill for me. I can pay the phone off sooner if I like and then just be paying the cheap plan, or even leave the carrier.

    Is this just common sense that isn’t working for some people? The longer I live in this world, the more I wonder if I’m really smart or if the majority is just really really dumb! :P

  • conservative_motorcyclist

    How much did Verizon pay the Attorney General to bring these frivolous charges against T-Mobile?

    • Kenan Jackson

      $500. AT&T contributed $1800 to his campaign. Tmobile did not. There’s a link a little further up.

  • itsme

    This is the first time posting a comment on TMONews. I am a TMO employee (business sales) and I remember the question that kept coming up was “what happens to the EIP balance if a customer decides to cancel service before paying off the balance in full?” The answer that was given again and again was that the customer has a CHOICE of either paying off the balance in full or continue to pay the monthly EIP until it is paid off. I believe that is what @unclefan was getting at. Now TMO expects customers to pay the entire balance off right away if they cancel service – that is unfair. In fact I’m pretty sure that a lot of retail reps where telling customers about the CHOICE they have if they cancel service before paying off the phone. This is where it gets confusing for customers – they were probably told one thing, and now its something else.

  • superg05

    people think there going to walk in t-mobile and walk out with a shiny new phone and go back to at&t with it without paying for it

  • Mike

    Once again, my over the top liberal home state is being the nanny state… Washington can really drive me nuts. If you dumb enough to NOT understand that buying the phone is buying the phone (be it on a payment plan or not) you should just be…ug…I don’t know…shot?! Why must the state ‘protect’ you from you from your own stupidity????

    • LC

      Apparently those of us in good ol’ Washington State don’t have enough common sense to figure this out on our own. Couldn’t agree with you more, Mike.

  • MrNov25

    Lol he and his office are dumb. Who would think they could walk away from an installment plan that they don’t have to pay. People know how to read but clearly not this guy.

  • superg05

    aren’t you able to return the device i thought i heard

  • RonJeezy

    I would think paying off the phone is still less than a cancelation fee on other carriers. Somebody tell this guy to hush while grown people do business.

    • Kenan Jackson

      Especially if you don’t return the phone. They can hit you with the EFT plus difference in what you paid and the retail cost.

      • 21stNow

        Ron that depends on too many different factors, with cost of the phone and time of cancellation being the biggest two.

        Kenan, AT&T and VZW only charge the ETF when a customer cancels the contract. There is no separate charge for the phone cost and the customer does not return the device. I can’t speak to what Sprint does.

  • Kar98

    Oh look:
    Candidate/Committee Name, Contribution Date, Amount, Primary/General,
    Contributor Name, City, State, Zip Code, Employer, Occupation
    FERGUSON ROBERT W, 08/25/2009, 500.00, P, VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC.
    GOOD GOV’T CLUB OF WA, OLYMPIA, WA, 98501, ,
    FERGUSON ROBERT W, 12/31/2012, 500.00, G, VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC.
    GOOD GOV’T CLUB OF WA, OLYMPIA, WA, 98501, ,

    It turns out Verizon is a regular contributor to Mr. Ferguson. T-Mobile is not.

    Source: http://www.pdc.wa.gov/servlet/ContServlet

    • nerdlust

      Wow is this for real? Because it seems obvious that I will have to pay for my cell phone if I decide to leave T-Mobile there by canceling my free no interest installment agreement. I’m a 100% for consumer Rights but this is seems fishy for attorney General to do.

    • Kenan Jackson

      I just checked myself, it’s real. AT&T is on the list as well for $1800. T mobile is not a contributor.

      Nice find. That’s a serious, but not illegal, conflict of interest.

  • Testing

    Testing

  • Bman

    Darn Republican commentators! Your knee jerk reaction is to defend the corporate imperative.

    T-Mobile is tying the cell phone purchase to the cell phone service. Therefore they are not serving the goal suggested in their ads: To liberate America from cell phone service commitments.

    If Americans had to pay up front for their phones, the cost of phones would be forced down, thus serving the advancement of technology.

    Remember when landline phones had to be rented from AT&T? The situation is analogous (with the substitution of herd instinct for policy).

    • 21stNow

      I think that most people on this blog are too young to remember the leased phones from AT&T.

  • mkuon

    haha im a part time sales rep for tmobile and I made like 6k in commission this month

    • guest

      No, you didn’t.

  • John

    If you can’t understand it when it’s explained to you they have the support page for you to purview for your whole time with the company, including your 14 day buyer’s remorse period. If this AG can’t read, perhaps he should be voted out. Doc 1674 on the support page

    If I cancel my service, what happens to my Equipment Installment Plan balance?

    If you elect to cancel service, all remaining installment charges will appear on your final bill.

    • thepanttherlady

      The average new customer (whether it be to service or EIP’s) isn’t going to go through all the pages of support on the T-Mobile website and read it. This information was not presented in the beginning. Matter of fact, the information wasn’t even online (the little disclaimer next to phone prices) when all of this rolled out. I’m looking at an EIP agreement I just signed last night, there is nothing regarding this policy at all. Not every customer gets a smartphone, uses a computer etc. This policy should at the very least be part of the agreement they sign but it isn’t.

      That’s the issue.

      • John

        The thing is that I didn’t go through any support pages, I googled T-Mobile EIP Terms. bam, first result.

  • Singleweird

    zero misrepresentation. what a massive waste of time.

  • Christian Saavedra

    This all ridiculous you can argue that Verizon and ATT mislead consumers by telling them they are purchasing a phone at a subsidized price when really they are just charging you extra each month to pay back for that same subsidy and than some plus a termination fee..

  • honestrep

    Way over exaggerated, reps were already instructed that anyone can pay off the device early or if they cancel service they may continue to pay for the device without any issues after cancellation. Although the device would be locked to the network until completely paid off.

  • hateinlol

    Don’t you people get sick and tired of arguing about cell phones? Good Gawd!

  • souggie

    Unclefan is arguing with tmo employees that work there everyday and are aware of the policies. This guy is full of it lol

    So Verizon contributes to Bob Ferguson huh?

    Crooked ass f@$ktard politician

    Go do something meaningful for the state of Washington like finding a way to lower the suicide rates in Seattle. Prolly killing themselves because of his incompetent leadership.

    I hate punks with a little bit of power that abuse it and act like they’re givingmeaningful

    • thepanttherlady

      I don’t think Unclefan stated T-Mobile employees aren’t aware of policies but rather they aren’t being honest/upfront about them,

  • Gary

    Common sense should automatically tell you you have to pay for your device. But the reps do clearly state it when you purchase your phone and devices. As far as the value vs classic plans go value is way cheaper! I know this by comparing both literally. I have 5 value plan lines, and my wife has 5 classic plan lines. My value plan lines with 5 devices is almost the exact same price as just her 5 classic plans. So if I pay off my devices my bill will be 100 dollars cheaper than hers is

    • garGary

      And it really is no contact. You don’t have to pay off your phone. You can walk away anytime. But if you don’t pay off your phone it gets blacklisted and you cant sell it.

  • brian90

    I don’t agree with the Attorney general. Tmobile is offering a credit service on the phone. Most pay as you go make you pay for the phone completely UPFRONT. Tmobile is acting as a credit card company by allowing you to pay over time without interest payments (you can PAY upfront). It is almost a separate agreement–it’s a phone financing agreement you would agree to with any retailer.

  • curtl

    Remind me not to vote for Bob Ferguson.

    • guest

      I’m sure Bob will be disappointed he lost the powerful T-Mobile store employee vote.

  • JustSaying

    WOW that troll named Warren on Sprint’s Facebook page keeps telling people T-Mobile is deceptive and with Sprint you can get some phones for “free” when you sign a two year contract.. WOW what an IDIOT!

  • MAN SIT YO $5 ASS DOWN BEFORE I MAKE CHANGE!

  • $46209291

    I expected better from WA state. I guess their AG Ferguson thinks his state’s residents don’t understand that you have to pay off the loan to finance the phone, even if there is no service contracts.

  • guest

    I dont see anything wrong with that Ad. But it should be clear to people that the service and phone are not completely seperate if they do the payment plan. If you could continue to pay your $20/mo for the phone after you canceled service it would be a different story

  • Roger William

    This is a company that has directors like John Pottle who can recklessly decide whom he can let go. This director is so powerful that he let go one of his manager, under the pretext of re-structuring but the real reason was this manager disagreed to falsify weekly report like John wanted. He not only let this manager go within 4 hours he got another manager for same position. This is amazing company and senior leaders allow such unethical wrong
    do and on other had they claim T-Mobile value as “Best Place to Perform and
    Grow”.

    John knows very well, everyone will think this as a normal lay off and no one will notice his dirty game.

    How can this be restructuring when they just replaced a hard working sincere person and no one in company HR or senior leader see it.

    Point is if company is not sincere and honest with its employee, then it will not be honest to its customer.

  • 21stNow

    To add fuel to this fire, I see that Verizon Wireless allows you to continue to make monthly payments on the device with their new Device Payment Program, even if you cancel wireless service with them.

    This leads me back to my original point; whatever T-Mobile wants to do with this, they have to be clear as to what the customer is required to do. Customers can’t make assumptions because two similar businesses handle two similar situations in two different ways.

  • tim

    this whole new uncarrier plan is a scam. Tmobile was good before cos you could save money. but with the new plan, you pay $500 or $600 for the new phone and you onlu save little on the plan. it even gets worse if you are on family plan with multiple lines. $3500 for 5 brand new smartphone. The savings on plan doesn’t come close to half of the $3500 you paid for 5 new phones. I’d not pay $1500 for 5 phones with AT&T or Verizon. I did the math and I am going to AT&T for better saving and superior coverage. byeeeeeeeee tmobile after 10 yrs.

    • TeXan

      Try spell checking if you want to be taken seriously.

  • Gaffle

    T-Mobile has not misled anyone. I read this same “misleading” info right from the go. The only reason this is a story is because people didn’t read the fine print.

  • mainevalues

    Being a customer care rep for t-mobile everytime I sell a handset using the eip I have to read the term to the buyer and the term clearly state that you are agree to make 24 month payments and should you cancel your service you will be responcable to pay the full balance of the device .. there is nothing saying you have a contract for 2 yrs and t-mobile in no way say you have to use the eip system to purchase a t-mobile handset. If you dont want the cost of the handset tied to your service then pay for the handset in full when you buy it

  • Rdogg

    I was employed with TMobile for 11 years and have moved on to other green pastures with one of the top carriers. It’s so funny to hear you all slam each other on who’s right and who’s wrong. Bottom line is TMobile is scratching and clawing to even stay in the game with different plans, I remember TClass , M class, Flex pay, value with contract, and now value No contact. What next? Someday or year TMobile will get it right. When you go against giants like At&T and Verizon tht have almost 100 million subscribers you will have a long and never ending battle.

  • CantStandStupidPeople

    Bottom line UncleFan is just the typical cheap F**k that wants everything for free and does not have a strong grasp on the concepts of basic math. I am a manager for a wireless carrier and I can’t stand people like you. Obviously the only thing TMo is interested in selling is wireless service. The installment program is clearly for customer convenience. Why would TMo not expect the balance of equipment due immediately upon termination of the plan? If you can not afford the rates they are charging (much less expensive than my company) then a HTC One should not be a priority. If it is I would suggest learning how to better manage your finances.You may also want to look in to Boost Mobile. I hear they are pretty cheap. What an A $$!

  • Paul

    Its unreasonable to think T-Mobile wont give me a free 700$ phone lol

  • bouricua94

    So much disagreement….hopefully google will soon have their own cell phone service and make all this madness stop.

  • Ryan

    That is crap. It’s just like financing furniture or a TV. Once the customer pays tmobile back for the phone, they are month to month and have no obligation to tmobile. There is no interest and it is up to the customer when they want to pay their phone off.

  • Guest

    I don’t care what Tmo is offering or not offering. They are a lying backstabbing company who doesn’t value their loyal customers or loyal employees.

  • Dallas Besty

    Better things of the AG to do than this. Yes, people are stupid, but you do not have to litigate on their behalf. Actions like the one the AG took just drives up our costs.

  • William Biggs

    I was told here in columbus oh I have 24 month to pay for my iphone 5 unless I pay it off early

  • Tmobile for ever

    This is stupid. Ive been with tmobile for over 12 years. I have never had a problem with changing phones, upgrading services, changing or adding services. I have used my phone as I moved from Florida, north Carolina, Arizona, Louisiana and as i travel all over the country. On the new plans I had no problem changing to a new service with no additional charges. and the advertising is correct. a person CAN get what is specified. But if you finance you phone, ummmm you have to pay for it. even if you cancel it. If you buy a car, you still owe that loan even if the car is repossessed. Stupid is stupid does. TMOBILE, thank you for being the amazing and helpful carrier you have been for me for going on now for almost 15 years. to the haters. ppbbhhtttt.

  • Smokey Behr

    I guess there’s just too many idiots out there that are the product of public schools who can’t read a contract or the fine print, and understand that you’re buying the phone on installments, and that if you cancel your service, you’re liable for the full cost of the phone. It’s like buying a car: If you sell the car, and you still owe money on it, you have to pay off the owner of the note before you can keep the rest of the money.

  • This is ridiculous. Not being explicitly clear about having to pay off your device in full when you cancel service is harmful to customers BUT NOT 2 year contracts, early termination fees, excessive overage fees, or dozens of other “norms” of the wireless industry. Its INSANE!

  • Moi

    This was all a pretty awesome read guys.. Good arguments.. I’m with att, so I’m overpaying as it is. But Value plan seems the way to go. If I just buy the phone unlocked from the manufacturer website, which in some phones, nexus 4 and This HTC One, is cheaper than tmobile, bam, no having to pay it all off if I want to cancel.

  • dkbnyc

    I wonder which company paid off the AG?

  • Wayne Rash

    Want to know why the AG sued T-Mobile? Do you think maybe it’s because his single largest corporate campaign contributor was AT&T? Check this story: http://www.eweek.com/mobile/t-mobile-calling-plans-run-afoul-of-washington-states-attorney-general/