Virgin Mobile Takes On T-Mobile’s Carly Ads, AT&T Customer Service

Looks like Virgin Mobile is joining the ranks of Cricket in poking fun at T-Mobile’s AT&T takeover with a new ad campaign that emphasizes Virgin’s “cheaper than T-Mobile” pricing. In this television spot called “party,” Virgin’s ridiculous attempt to poke fun at the Spencer and Heidi “The Hills” phenomenon includes a white set with an imitation Carly spokeswoman in the ever so familiar pink dress. With a “spin” on the white background Virgin Mobile attempts to show that what every wireless customer truly wants is…one big party.

The Spencer and Sarah duo, aptly called Sparah point out the depressing set while the fake T-Mobile spokeswoman points out “And imagine us being taken over by AT&T, who’s last in customer satisfaction1.” Enter the AT&T spokesman who looks like a guy you would go on a blind date with before your bailout phone call comes while the backdrop changes to a nightclub reflecting the Virgin Mobile party lifestyle. Sparah then points out that T-Mobile and AT&T customers can sign up with Virgin, “Our customers only pay $35 a month for unlimited data and messaging on cool Android-powered phones.”

“T-Mobile has anointed itself as the value leader in wireless,” said Bob Stohrer, vice president of Marketing, Virgin Mobile USA. “Yet they’ve conveniently left Virgin Mobile out of their comparison set, so we’re crashing their party. No matter how you dress their plans up, they’re no match for Virgin Mobile’s no-contract, Unlimited Data offering at $35/month coupled with Android-powered phones like the new Motorola Triumph.”

Someone needs to tell Virgin Mobile that the party lifestyle and the nightclub scene isn’t exactly what the T-Mobile customer base is about. Also, Spencer and Heidi were fame whores who are now broke and living at their parents. Great ad campaign.

 

Sprint Press Release:

Virgin Mobile USA Takes on T-Mobile in New Advertising Campaign

Virgin Mobile USA Dares Consumers to “Find a Better Android Plan” Than Unlimited Web, Data, Messaging, and Email at $35 a Month

WARREN, N.J. (BUSINESS WIRE), August 08, 2011 – Virgin Mobile USA is going head to head with T-Mobile in its new advertising campaign which highlights Virgin Mobile as the best value for Android smartphones. The broadcast commercials star Sparah™, Spencer Falls and Sarah Carroll, Virgin Mobile’s manufactured celebrity couple and tabloid darlings, and imitation AT&T and T-Mobile spokespeople. Launching today, the first of two spots opens on a stark white set with an imitation T-Mobile spokeswoman in the familiar pink patterned dress but takes a spin on this cliché backdrop advertising by transforming it into an energetic Virgin Mobile party and portraying the lifestyle Virgin Mobile customers enjoy.

In the first spot, called “Party,” Sparah enters the set pointing out the depressing décor. The T-Mobile spokeswoman agrees that it’s depressing and adds, “And imagine us being taken over by AT&T, who’s last in customer satisfaction1.” The imitation AT&T spokesman enters the scene and the backdrop flips to a nightclub environment reflecting the vibrant Virgin Mobile brand as Sparah points out that T-Mobile and AT&T customers could always join Virgin Mobile and, “Our customers only pay $35 a month for unlimited data and messaging on cool Android-powered phones.”

“T-Mobile has anointed itself as the value leader in wireless,” said Bob Stohrer, vice president of Marketing, Virgin Mobile USA. “Yet they’ve conveniently left Virgin Mobile out of their comparison set, so we’re crashing their party. No matter how you dress their plans up, they’re no match for Virgin Mobile’s no-contract, Unlimited Data offering at $35/month coupled with Android-powered phones like the new Motorola Triumph.”

Virgin Mobile recently introduced the Motorola Triumph as its newest smartphone available on the Beyond Talk plans. Triumph coupled with the $35 monthly plan provides the greatest value2 for an Android plan in the marketplace.

Sparah was first introduced in May in Virgin Mobile’s marketing campaign to tap into the country’s insatiable appetite for celebrity gossip. The manufactured couple has been covered in the mainstream media and often spotted out on the town in the elite Hollywood social scene.

“It’s a competitive market and we’re not going to shy away from an opportunity to debate things publicly so that consumers can see both sides of a story,” continued Stohrer.

The national commercials are running on cable and network television through the middle of September. Virgin Mobile’s campaign also includes cinema, national print, digital, web and point of sale materials daring customers to find a better Android plan.

ABOUT VIRGIN MOBILE USA

Virgin Mobile USA, one of Sprint’s prepaid brands, offers millions of customers control, flexibility and connectivity through Virgin Mobile’s Beyond Talk™ plans for mobile phone service and prepaid Broadband2Go high-speed Web access. Virgin Mobile branded devices are available at more than 40,000 retail stores, including Best Buy, Radio Shack, Target and Walmart. Top-Up cards are available at approximately 150,000 locations nationwide and can be used for Broadband2Go services. Purchase and experience Virgin Mobile on the Web and at Facebook, Twitter, You Tube and www.virginmobileusa.com.

1 Customer satisfaction score based on American Customer Satisfaction Index 2011.
2 Comparison based only on competitor pricing of monthly web and data plans for Android-powered phones. Voice offers and limited time offers excluded.

Tags: , , , , ,

  • Anonymous

    lol. The only problem is that most club goers are more likely to have a high end phone not on cricket. 

  • scuzzbag87

    i had VM for a while and the data speeds do suck never got anythig past like 300kb except for one time i got like 900 something kb.  glad i switched to tmo 4g speeds.

  • johnson

    I’d rather be on sprint than cricket, or virgin mobile.

    • Deff

      VM runs on Sprint’s network. Same coverage, just lower grade phones and less money.

    • Blackcat

      Sprint owns vm. They also own boost. That’s why sprint offers no prepay plans as sprint, nextel.

  • ItsMichaelNotMike

    OK, as a former T-Mobile customer of 8 years (but I still had my sister “re-up” for two years with T-Mobile, because she is disabled and really likes the SGS Vibrant I gave her, so the less hassle in her life, the better) and now a Virgin AND Metro customer, I can understand the rock throwing at Virgin (aka Sprint) for this ad.

    But you have to admit people, at least Virgin is doing something in terms of marketing. And this commercial is amusing, IMO.  Plus it exhibits far more cajones than anything I recall T-Mobile doing.

    People should not be so quick to dis prepaid.  Aside from the fact that millions of post-paid subscribers are moving to prepaid (and not because we have failed in life, as some like to deride in here) recall that last quarter it was prepaid that saved T-Mobile’s numbers from being even more dismal.

    T-Mobile and the other carriers are embracing prepaid because they know that’s the way of the future.  So too should you. I predict by next year dissing prepaid service and insulting prepaid users will cease, if for no other reason than the tanked economy, where people are trying to save money anywhere they can. (Hey, even Apple Apple can read the writing on the wall.  That’s why it is coming out with a prepaid iPhone and drastically reducing prices.  Apple knows it needs to come out with devices and lower prices so the masses will actually buy Apple products, or it’s going to burn through all that cash it has in its vault.

    Back to prepaid:

    You know why the big carriers hate prepaid, because it forces them to be competitive, give good customer service, act competently and quit with the money-grab tactics (best example, tiered data plans).

    Post-paid service and 24-month contracts are like being in a union.  It’s very difficult to discipline or fire employees who belong to a union. (Same with teachers and professors who enjoy tenure).  End result, the employees have no incentive to perform well, improve, or overall become the best at what they do.

    Carriers know that with prepaid if they anger a customer (because of incompetence, negligence or rude treatment) that customer will simply not renew the service the next month and sign on with someone else. (Although I don’t see many people doing this, they could literally have a phone for each prepaid carrier and simply activate it when the present carrier angers them.)

    When carriers know they have you locked in to a 24 month contract they have no incentive to make sure they do things right.  They know you can’t walk, unless, of course, you pay an exorbitant ETF payment. (Now you know why Verizon raised its ETF penalty, because the old ETF was not preventing defections.)

  • OKDave

    Don’t understand why the writer is immediately defensive. Are we here to defend T-Mobile, or recognize that their dubious business decisions (like its hideous prospective merger with The Evil Empire) are perfectly subject to the abject ridicule they richly deserve. IF their competitors WEREN’T attacking T-Mobile, that would be reason to worry. The competitors know there’s blood in the water as Deutsche Telekom is willing to let TMobile die on the vine while leaving its customer stranded as the unflushed bowl water in the AT&T customer toilet. Power to ya, Virgin! If TMobile can’t take the heat, don’t make stupid business decisions that incite it.

  • this is funny

    funny thing is you couldn’t watch this video on virgins slow data speeds on your low end virgin phone! lol

  • Fish

    Fat balding att rep grinding fake carly and she says “I’m contractually obliged to enjoy this”…haha great laugh there for me

  • Tito!

    SCORE! On Speidi diss. :]
    This is what I’m talking about, if T-Mobile “crashed” their party & gave data for cheap even as a promotional period I bet you they’d be pretty golden.
    Something like, for a whole month promotion “Sign on to a new 2 year, Get $5 in 5GB Data or something.” :)

    Be the competitive carrier you were T-Mobile, not the constant not so much difference rate plans relauncher. :D

  • Tito!

    SCORE! On Speidi diss. :]
    This is what I’m talking about, if T-Mobile “crashed” their party & gave data for cheap even as a promotional period I bet you they’d be pretty golden.
    Something like, for a whole month promotion “Sign on to a new 2 year, Get $5 in 5GB Data or something.” :)

    Be the competitive carrier you were T-Mobile, not the constant not so much difference rate plans relauncher. :D

  • Jcj1

    What I failed to hear was voice, wonder what the voice charges are????

    • ItsMichaelNotMike

      I pay $40 monthly (taxes and feed included) for 1200 talk minutes, 2.5 GB 3G and unlimited text.  Virgin throttles if you exceed your 2.5 GB limit.

      It’s $55 monthly (taxes and fees included) for unlimited talk.

      Note that Virgin raised their plan prices just last month.  It’s now $35 for 2.5 GB web, unlimited text and 300 talk minutes.  It’s $45 for the plan I have (see above) and the $60 plan went down to $55.

      But, you can go on eBay and buy grandfathered plans, for about $22.  For my mom, who ended up not wanting the phone because it was too complicated, I got her Virgin’s $25 plan, that went up to $35. You can also buy the $40 plan.

      • It’sMikeNotMichael

        Are you a Virgin spokesperson?  You sure do enjoy being a proud Virgin, don’t you?

        • Jcj1

          hell NO, true to T-Mobile. Just says messages/data but nothing about voice and was curious as to what were hiding

      • It’sMikeNotMichael

        Are you a Virgin spokesperson?  You sure do enjoy being a proud Virgin, don’t you?

      • Jcj1

        So there just like ATT/verizon. Gotta love misleading ads

      • Jcj1

        So there just like ATT/verizon. Gotta love misleading ads

    • ItsMichaelNotMike

      I pay $40 monthly (taxes and feed included) for 1200 talk minutes, 2.5 GB 3G and unlimited text.  Virgin throttles if you exceed your 2.5 GB limit.

      It’s $55 monthly (taxes and fees included) for unlimited talk.

      Note that Virgin raised their plan prices just last month.  It’s now $35 for 2.5 GB web, unlimited text and 300 talk minutes.  It’s $45 for the plan I have (see above) and the $60 plan went down to $55.

      But, you can go on eBay and buy grandfathered plans, for about $22.  For my mom, who ended up not wanting the phone because it was too complicated, I got her Virgin’s $25 plan, that went up to $35. You can also buy the $40 plan.

  • Anonymous

    Wow, what a horrible ad.  Why doesn’t Virgin talk about the speed of their 4G network, LOL?

    • Guest

      what 4G Network…….

    • Guest

      what 4G Network…….

    • ItsMichaelNotMike

      Good point.  I too want to ask questions.  Why doesn’t T-Mobile talk about its $40 plan (taxes and fees included), for unlimited text, 1200 talk minutes and 2.5 GB web?  ;)

      • Moneyman

        I think ppl rather have that $50 plan with prepaid consisting of unlimted talk and text and 100 mb on 4g. Virgin mobile web probably barely works anyway, you’ll be lucky to get to 2.5gb. Some people have wi-fi at home. Most prepaid users aren’t using smartphones so web is not a necessity. Plus, those android phones are equivalent to G1 which came out 4 years ago lol.

    • ItsMichaelNotMike

      Good point.  I too want to ask questions.  Why doesn’t T-Mobile talk about its $40 plan (taxes and fees included), for unlimited text, 1200 talk minutes and 2.5 GB web?  ;)

  • http://www.phoneapapoulusfacelickiest.org phone face

    Ok 
    1. DO NOT make fun of carly.
    2. Your Android phones SUCK.. i will keep my G2x and my 8mb speeds thanks.

    • iPhoneFTW

      Carly sucks and the VM girls are wayyy hotter!

    • iPhoneFTW

      Carly sucks and the VM girls are wayyy hotter!

  • http://www.phoneapapoulusfacelickiest.org phone face

    Ok 
    1. DO NOT make fun of carly.
    2. Your Android phones SUCK.. i will keep my G2x and my 8mb speeds thanks.

  • ItsMichaelNotMike

    Note: Doesn’t T-Mobile now offer a two line service, for $100. ($49.99 each)?  With about $9 taxes and fees per line, here in California, that works out to only $5 more per line over Virgin Mobile (VM is $110 for two lines, unlimited everything, but really only 2.5 GB data).

    Being that close in price, seems the main benefit of VM is that there’s no contract, that allows one to shop around whenever there’s a better deal elsewhere. But $118 for two lines is amazingly low.

  • Notreallyavirgin

    Among the dumbest commercials I’ve ever seen.  And I actually like Virgin Mobile otherwise. 

  • Carmen Diva

    I think this is the first time I have seen fanboyism for a phone company. Usually I see it with Manufacturers and OS(usually Android geeks and Itards and the Stuck in times BB user and Hispter WP7) but this is a first for seeing people this fanatical over a phone company.

    It’s a parody. The Sparah thing i think is dumb but it’s a dumb funny and the Carly parody is hilarious. What i find funny is the fact it was funny when Tmobile ripped off the Mac commercials to attack VZ/At&t but when their same tactic is done back on them, people are up in arms.

    And those defending Carly because you are a “fan.”….That’s…sad

    And this is coming not from a Virgin Mobile Owner but A verizon owner(Droid Charge, Xperia Play)
    Virgin Mobile’s user base is marketed towards teens/young adults(HENCE THE COMMERCIALS THEY ADVERTISE), Just like Verizon droid campaign is usually marketed towards a male audience and Guess
    what T-mobile and Carly are marketed to the demographic of creepers who fawn over a girl in a super
    cute pink dress.

    So i understand why they used the “Sparah/Party” theme. It’s marketing people.

  • Carmen Diva

    I think this is the first time I have seen fanboyism for a phone company. Usually I see it with Manufacturers and OS(usually Android geeks and Itards and the Stuck in times BB user and Hispter WP7) but this is a first for seeing people this fanatical over a phone company.

    It’s a parody. The Sparah thing i think is dumb but it’s a dumb funny and the Carly parody is hilarious. What i find funny is the fact it was funny when Tmobile ripped off the Mac commercials to attack VZ/At&t but when their same tactic is done back on them, people are up in arms.

    And those defending Carly because you are a “fan.”….That’s…sad

    And this is coming not from a Virgin Mobile Owner but A verizon owner(Droid Charge, Xperia Play)
    Virgin Mobile’s user base is marketed towards teens/young adults(HENCE THE COMMERCIALS THEY ADVERTISE), Just like Verizon droid campaign is usually marketed towards a male audience and Guess
    what T-mobile and Carly are marketed to the demographic of creepers who fawn over a girl in a super
    cute pink dress.

    So i understand why they used the “Sparah/Party” theme. It’s marketing people.

  • Schippma

    My Carly can kick VM Carly’s a$$ any day of the week!

  • Schippma

    My Carly can kick VM Carly’s a$$ any day of the week!

    • Carmen Diva

      I personally think the Parody Carly is prettier(her teeth doesn’t bother me as much) vs Original Carly. But that’s just me.

      And i want that dress!!! I have to write to Tmobile or Virgin and see where they sell them at. Too cute66

      • Stryker

        The VM Carly is a lot curvier, too, which is a big plus in my book!

  • Carmen Diva

    Personally this ad is great. For 35 dollars a month…I can get unlimited text messaging and data with Virgin Mobile and 300 minutes vs 30 dollars a month gets me either 1500 minutes or 1500 text and 30 MB of data.
    I rather pay the 5 dollars and get Virgin.

    As well as $55 a month, I can get unlimited everything and NO THROTTLING(Virgin has not Throttled Data…Yet) but with T-mobile I get the first 100 MB of 4g data and everything after that is throttled. 
    Again, I rather pay the 5 dollars extra and get Virgin Mobile.

    Besides, for the most part isn’t Virgin/Sprint’s Coverage better in a lot of areas even without 4g? That’s a question….

    • http://twitter.com/johntajacobs Johnta` Jacobs

      Virgin Mobile is getting rid of unlimited data… just to let you know and there 3G sucks !!! Virgin Mobile isn’t a competor b/c there MVNO !! THey use Sprint Network and don’t get me started

      • Carmen Diva

        I wasn’t aware that Virgin Mobile was getting rid of their 3g service. I was total that VM was THROTTLING their data not getting rid of it altogether.

        Which still gives them leg up PRESENTLY.
        Tmobile’s 4g plan unlimited at 50 bucks(with 100 MB of 4g data and then you are left with even slower internet) vs Virgin’s unlimited at 55 bucks(with unlimited 3g and at this point, No throttling)

        I say VM is a competitor, MVNO or not.

        • ItsMichaelNotMike

          He did  not say that VM was getting rid of 3G, only that it throttles.  Which it does, as when I signed up for VM the terms of service said I was permitted 2.5 GB of data before they slow down the connection.

          I use my Motorola Triumph on WiFi, so 3G, 4G, it all does not matter to me.

          But if someone is on the road a lot and does not have WiFi access, then I can see him or her wanting T-Mobile’s 4G.

          But that’s the bottom line isn’t it, we all have different needs.  That does not mean VM sucks, Sprint sucks or T-Mobile sucks in terms of service, getting a decent signal or speed.

          I agree with you.  Because of MY needs, I’d rather enjoy the $40 plan and use the Motorola Triumph.

        • DrEldeburg

          um lets think here…44.99 for unlimited talk, 5.00 for unlimited text, and another 5 for 200mb of data or 10.00 for 2gb of data. Personally I would rather go with the 2gb, and pay 60 a month for unlimited talk and text and unlimited data throttled at 2gb…..have 4g service…have nationwide access, have good coverage….get installment plans for a phone so I dont have to pay up front all of the cost, and have better customer service…..all with T-Mobile. 

        • DrEldeburg

          oh, btw im talking about the value plans. I know your view is limited to prepaid only, but thats the thing about T-Mobile…they have options

  • Carmen Diva

    Personally this ad is great. For 35 dollars a month…I can get unlimited text messaging and data with Virgin Mobile and 300 minutes vs 30 dollars a month gets me either 1500 minutes or 1500 text and 30 MB of data.
    I rather pay the 5 dollars and get Virgin.

    As well as $55 a month, I can get unlimited everything and NO THROTTLING(Virgin has not Throttled Data…Yet) but with T-mobile I get the first 100 MB of 4g data and everything after that is throttled. 
    Again, I rather pay the 5 dollars extra and get Virgin Mobile.

    Besides, for the most part isn’t Virgin/Sprint’s Coverage better in a lot of areas even without 4g? That’s a question….

  • Anonymous

    CDMA?, no thank you Virgin Mobile

  • Anonymous

    CDMA?, no thank you Virgin Mobile

  • Meagan

    Love the Virgin Mobile Ad!  Thanks for sharing it.  I would have probably never seen it.
    I love the left & right head-turning while giving the Goofy-smile.

    I wish Sprint had a better signal where I live.  The Motorola Triumph is really going to change the face of Virgin Mobile and the prepaid stigma.  Then again, Tmobile is pushing prepaid on their website and sells crappy prepaid Tmobile branded mobiles.  Lets face it.  Tmobile is changing it up, because of Virgin Mobile is opening it doors to those saying heck-no to higher-rates contracted-AT&T.

  • http://twitter.com/johntajacobs Johnta` Jacobs

    I really don’t like this commerical.  Virgin Mobile sucks and with T-Mobile you have access to 2g 3g and of course 4g speeds with a prepaid phone on T-Mobile… So let virigin Mobile throw there shots !! They can’t say that ! And lets not forget T-Mobile introduce Andriod to AMERICA !! T-Mobile has way more Andriod phones then everybody !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Britneyfan69

    Wateva fck virgin mobile I’m sticking with my att infuse 4G nd my 11 mbps over here in La.

  • HankRearden67

    They hit the nail on the head! Love my new Virgin phone and service! See ya AT&T&T

  • iPhoneFTW

    RIP T-Mobile! Virgin Mobile just killed you…

    • Jdroid6

      Vm is crap like iphones.

  • iPhoneFTW

    RIP T-Mobile! Virgin Mobile just killed you…

  • Point blank

    There’s no way that vm Carly look better then the real Carly

    • Jdroid6

      I agree.

  • Point blank

    There’s no way that vm Carly look better then the real Carly

  • Me

    not that I’m thrilled with the direction T-Mobile has gone lately… but VM has no room to talk.
    1) terrible coverage (look at their map it says it all)
    2) they have data speed throttling as well
    3) this $35 plan only includes 300 minutes — Unlimited is $55

    Just sayin… they aren’t exactly a “party” either. Nobody is. If it was, businesses wouldn’t make money.

  • Me

    not that I’m thrilled with the direction T-Mobile has gone lately… but VM has no room to talk.
    1) terrible coverage (look at their map it says it all)
    2) they have data speed throttling as well
    3) this $35 plan only includes 300 minutes — Unlimited is $55

    Just sayin… they aren’t exactly a “party” either. Nobody is. If it was, businesses wouldn’t make money.

  • DrEldeburg

    because its a phone that was designed almost half a decade ago, and has hardly changed much, and is quickly losing market share. It may have been revolutionary 4 years ago, but 4 years ago is a very loooooong time in technology. Compared to most phones on the market the iPhone is a dinosaur. Soon to go the way of car phones and CRT TVs. 

    • Guest

      Uh, last time I checked iOS isn’t losing any market share (I don’t know where your getting your information). RIM might be a dinosaur and losing market share but not iOS devices. Look at any mobile OS and show me how much it has changed. Sure things have changed inside the phone, but the overall appearance and flow of the OS’s haven’t change by much.

  • DrEldeburg

    because its a phone that was designed almost half a decade ago, and has hardly changed much, and is quickly losing market share. It may have been revolutionary 4 years ago, but 4 years ago is a very loooooong time in technology. Compared to most phones on the market the iPhone is a dinosaur. Soon to go the way of car phones and CRT TVs. 

  • Adam Rogers

    Virgin Mobile should make an ad showing how their abysmal  customer service reps just transfer you to someone else, over and over again. Before going T-Mobile, I tried (for nearly 2 weeks!) to get my Virgin Blackberry activated, and they couldn’t do it. Not even at their Executive level at head office. I literally wasted HOURS of my life with them on the phone before telling them to stick it going ‘pink’. That was a year ago, and I’ve never looked back. T-Mobile, IMO, out-perform every other provider when it comes to customer service and satisfaction. Hope that stays the same once AT&T merge. Haven’t heard great things about them.

  • Guest

    Can I just say that I am on ETERNAL HOLD currently with T-Mobile prepaid!  Phone was activated on 8/15 using an activation card with $3.34.  It is now 8/19, I have spoken to countless T-Mobile representatives, even those at the T-Mobile store where I had to purchase a $50 refill card to get the monthly prepaid 4g unlimited plan on 8/16 that has yet to be posted to the account although it has been deducted from my bank account!  I have requested on numerous occasions to speak with a PREPAID supervisor/manager and I’m not sure there are any.  Yesterday, Joanne was supposed to have created a “help desk” ticket and someone was to call me back within the hour, but NOTHING.  It is going on 53 minutes on HOLD this time and I am waiting for Vincent, Diorico’s supervisor, perhaps they went to lunch and forgot I was on hold.  At this point, I just want my money back and will take the phone to CRICKET who can activate it in less than an hour!!  To say the least, this is the MOST frustrating experience I have EVER had with T-Mobile and it is the PREPAID diviision that will most likely cause me to leave T-Mobile whose customer service in the CONTRACT division is and has been exceptional.  WAKE UP T-MOBILE !!  I have heard “you’re call is very important to us, we’ll be with you shortly” one too many times, BUT I will speak with a REPRESENTATIVE before I hang up!

  • crazy

    virgins moto triumph is junk. 2.2. slow lots of problems.
    t mobile.exhibit 2 4g, blows it out of the water, look at the to, and read the REVIEWS!!!